Poll: Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Mk II

Who will you vote for?


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I don't know what happening in the word of politics.... its literally gone mad.

People finally waking up to the BS they are being fed but not learning from it. Just jumping from the frying pan to the nearby saucepan because of a conditioned belief that it is the only alternative.

People are so convinced that anything is better than the Tories and that Labour can't be worst and is the only way to get rid of the Tories they aren't looking at what they are getting into bed with - aided by Corbyn telling them what they want to hear.
 
OCUK, gotta hand it - I list a MASSIVE list of EXPERTS, countless names - and still someone says the opposite xD - or at least says its no more or less valid than another opinion xD

haha - erm nah, economic experts without to much of an interest in politics only maths, all agree

humanity got no hope

I wish we ran society on maths, science, experts and logic, rather than opinions and money - everyone would be so much better
Sorry but economics is much more about politics than it is about maths. As has already been explained, the Conservative manifesto hasn't been costed because it isn't proposing wholesale changes to the UK economy - it's a conservative (small c) manifesto.
 
That term "wealth distribution"

Do you not believe that people shouldn't earn the money they get? Or just handed to them.

I think that's describing it in very simplistic terms. Do I think that people should earn money as oppose to being given it? I would say yes they should earn it but there is a silly disparity between workforce wages and the people at the top. It is that that I think is out of whack.

To add, please stop thinking "Because A, therefore B". I never said people should be just handed money.
 
People finally waking up to the BS they are being fed but not learning from it. Just jumping from the frying pan to the nearby saucepan because of a conditioned belief that it is the only alternative.
You keep saying that.

THe idea that enough people will vote for the party they actually want to get rid of the two main parties is so much wishful thinking.

Not everybody responds logically in an election.

You get the people who will always vote the same way. Possibly their parents voted that way, or their locality is a stronghold. Heck, there are people who would vote Tory if they were pledging to bring about the apocalypse on June 9th.

The fact is there is no other party to dilute the right wing vote share, now that UKIP have dissolved due to Brexit being a reality.

The left-wing vote is fractured among Greens, Labour, SNP and others.

If we all voted for the party we wanted, we would have a Tory government from now until forever. AV/STV would improve the situation and give other parties a bit of a chance. But whilst we have FPTP, if one side splits their vote and the other doesn't.... you tell me what happens.

Let's not forget plenty of people are happy with the Tories and want more of the same.
 
THe idea that enough people will vote for the party they actually want to get rid of the two main parties is so much wishful thinking.

It might be wishful thinking but I'm still going to advocate it - because there won't be real change until it happens (wholesale) - if no one is saying it there is no hope of people eventually waking upto what is really needed.
 
Sorry but economics is much more about politics than it is about maths. As has already been explained, the Conservative manifesto hasn't been costed because it isn't proposing wholesale changes to the UK economy - it's a conservative (small c) manifesto.

LOL what does that sentence even mean ?!!?!

Oh someone determined to vote emotionally - got you.

There are two kinds of conservative (with a big C - trust me), voter - a millionaire or a misguided person - look in your wallet to find out what you are.
 
It might be wishful thinking but I'm still going to advocate it - because there won't be real change until it happens (wholesale) - if no one is saying it there is no hope of people eventually waking upto what is really needed.

While I agree in principle, it feels like this election (more than most) is one where every vote counts.

If you're in a marginal seat and you feel strongly (either for or against the Conservatives) I think you've got to vote tactically.
 
While I agree in principle, it feels like this election (more than most) is one where every vote counts.

If you're in a marginal seat and you feel strongly (either for or against the Conservatives) I think you've got to vote tactically.

If the seat I was in was marginal Im not sure how I'd vote tbh.

I don't like either main party manifesto.

Im not sure I believe labour can stump up the cash, but I don't really like much in the tory one at all.
 
LOL what does that sentence even mean ?!!?!

Oh someone determined to vote emotionally - got you.

There are two kinds of conservative (with a big C - trust me), voter - a millionaire or a misguided person - look in your wallet to find out what you are.
Conservative with a big 'C' = proper noun referring to the Conservative party, whereas conservative with a small 'c' is an adjective, tending to oppose change.
 
As a random point the following ECONOMIC EXPERTS SUPPORT LABOURS COSTED MANIFESTO:

Dr Adotey Bing-Pappoe, lecturer in economics, Alan Freeman (personal capacity), Alfredo Saad Filho, Professor of Political Economy, SOAS University of London, Andrew Cumbers, Professor of Regional Political Economy, University of Glasgow, Andrew Simms, author of The New Economics, co-director New Weather Institute, Andy Ross FAcSS, Visiting Professor, Birkbeck University of London , Andy Kilmister, Department of Accounting, Finance and Economics, Oxford Brookes University, Ann Pettifor, Director of PRIME Economics (Policy Research in Macroeconomics), Dr Antonio Andreoni (PhD Cambridge), Senior Lecturer in Economics, SOAS University of London, Anwar Shaikh, Professor, New School for Social Research, USA, Arturo Hermann, Senior research fellow, Italian National Institute of Statistics, Rome, Italy, Professor Ben Fine, Department of Economics, SOAS University of London, Robert Rowthorn, Emeritus Professor of Economics, University of Cambridge., Bruce Cronin, Professor of Economic Sociology, Director of Research, Director of the Centre for Business Network Analysis, University of Greenwich, Dr Bruno Bonizzi, Lecturer in Political Economy, University of Winchester, Carlos Oya, Reader in Development Studies, SOAS University of London, Carolina Alves, PhD Economics, Carolyn Jones, Director, Institute of Employment Rights, Cem Oyvat, Lecturer, University of Greenwich, Christopher Cramer, Professor of the Political Economy of Development, SOAS University of London, Ciaran Driver FAcSS, Professor of Economics, SOAS University of London, Professor Colin Haslam, Professor of Accounting and Finance, Queen Mary University of London, Costas Lapavitsas, Professor of Economics, SOAS University of London, Cyrus Bina, Distinguished Research Professor of Economics, University of Minnesota, USA, Dr Dan O’Neill, Lecturer in Ecological Economics, University of Leeds, Daniela Gabor, Professor of Economics and Macro-Finance, University of the West of England, Daniele Archibugi, Professor, Birkbeck College, Professor Danny Dorling, University of Oxford, Writer and Academic, Dean Baker, Co-Director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, Washington, DC, Dr Deborah Johnston Pro-Director (Learning and Teaching) SOAS (University of London), Diego Sánchez-Ancochea, Associate Professor in Political Economy, Director, Latin American Centre, University of Oxford, Dr Dimitris P. Sotiropoulos, The Open University Business School, Elisa Van Waeyenberge, Lecturer of Economics, SOAS University of London, Dr Emanuele Lobina, Public Services International Research Unit, University of Greenwich, Dr Faiza Shaheen, Economist (in a personal capacity), Frances Stewart, Professor of Development Economics and Director, Centre for Research on Inequality, Human Security and Ethnicity, University of Oxford, Gary Dymski, Professor of Applied Economics, Leeds University Business School, Geoff Harcourt, Honorary Professor, UNSW Australia, Gerald Epstein, Co-Director, Political Economy Research Institute, and Department of Economics, University of Massachusetts Amherst, USA, Dr Giorgos Galanis, Lecturer in Economics, Goldsmiths University, Gregor Semieniuk, Lecturer in Economics, SOAS University of London, Guglielmo Forges Davanzati, Associate professor of Political Economy, University of Salento, Italy, Dr Guy Standing FAcSS, Professorial Research Associate, SOAS University of London, Ha-Joon Chang, University of Cambridge, Hannah Bargawi, Lecturer in Economics, SOAS University of London, and Research Partner, Centre for Development Policy and Research, Dr Hassan Hakimian, Reader in Economics, SOAS University of London, Professor Dr Heiner Flassbeck, former Chief Economist of UNCTAD, Geneva, Heikki Patomäki, Professor of World Politics, University of Helsinki, Howard M. Wachtel, Professor Emeritus of Economics, American University, Washington, DC, USA, Howard Reed, Director, Landman Economics, Dr Hugh Goodacre, Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of Westminster, Teaching Fellow, University College London, Hugo Radice, University of Leeds., Hulya Dagdeviren, Professor of Economic Development, University of Hertfordshire, Ilhan Dögüs, Department of Socioeconomics, University of Hamburg, Germany, James K. Galbraith, Professor of Government, University of Texas, USA, Jan Toporowski, Professor of Economics and Finance, SOAS University of London, Dr Jane Lethbridge, Public Services International Research Unit, University of Greenwich, Jeanette Findlay, Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of Glasglow, Jeff Faux, Founder & former Director, Economic Policy Institute, Washington D C, Dr Jeff Powell, Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of Greenwich, Dr Jeff Tan, Economist, Aga Khan University in the UK, Jeremy Smith, co-director, PRIME Economics (Policy Research in Macroeconomics), Dr Jo Michell, Senior Lecturer in Economics, UWE Bristol, Professor John Grahl, Economics Department, Middlesex University, John Palmer, former Political Director of the European Policy Centre, Dr Johnna Montgomerie, Senior Lecturer in Economics, Deputy Director of the Political Economy Research Centre, Goldsmiths University of London, Jonathan Dawson, Coordinator of Economics, Schumacher College, Professor Jonathan Michie, Professor of Innovation & Knowledge Exchange, University of Oxford , Dr Jonathan Perraton, Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of Sheffield, Jorge Buzaglo, Associate Professor of Economics, University of Stockholm, Sweden, Dr Julian Wells, Principal Lecturer of Economics, Kingston University, Kate Bayliss, Research Fellow, Economics Department, SOAS University of London, Professor Kate Pickett, University of York Champion for Research on Justice & Equality, Dr Kevin Deane, Senior Lecturer in International Development, University of Northampton (personal capacty), Dr Kitty Stewart, Associate Professor of Social Policy, London School of Economics and Political Science, Klaus Nielsen, Professor of Institutional Economics, Birkbeck University of London, László Andor, Associate Professor, Corvinus University, Hungary, Leslie Huckfield, Yunus Centre for Social Business & Health, Glasgow Caledonian University, Malcolm Sawyer, Emeritus Professor of Economics, University of Leeds, Marco Veronese Passarella, Economics Division, Leeds University Business School, Maria Nikolaidi, Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of Greenwich, Dr Mario Seccareccia, Full Professor, Department of Economics, University of Ottawa, Canada, Dr Martin Watts, Emeritus Professor of Economics, The University of Newcastle, Massoud Karshenas, Professor of Economics, SOAS University of London, Dr Matteo Rizzo, Senior Lecturer, Department of Economics, SOAS University of London, Mehmet Ugur, Professor of Economics and Institutions, University of Greenwich Business School, Michael Roberts, financial economist and author of The Long Depression, Professor Mushtaq Khan, Department of Economics, SOAS, University of London, Professor Ozlem Onaran, Director of Greenwich Political Economy Research Centre, University of Greenwich, Pallavi Roy, Lecturer in International Economics, SOAS, University of London, Paulo dos Santos, Assistant Professor of Economic, New School for Social Research, USA, Paul Mason, economics writer, Prem Sikka, Emeritus Professor of Accounting, University of Essex, Dr Pritam Singh, Professor of Economics, Oxford Brookes University, Radhika Desai, Professor, Department of Political Studies, University of Manitoba, USA, Richard McIntyre, Professor, Chair, Department of Economics, University of Rhode Island, USA, Richard Murphy, Professor of Practice in International Political Economy at City University of London and Director of Tax Research LLP, Richard Parker, Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, USA, Richard Wilkinson, Emeritus Professor of Social Epidemiology, University of Nottingham, Dr Robert Calvert Jump, Lecturer in Economics, Kingston University, Robert Neild, Professor Emeritus of Economics, University of Cambridge, Robert Pollin, Distinguished Professor of Economics and Co-Director, Political Economy Research Institute, University of Massachusetts Amherst, USA, Roberto Veneziani, Queen Mary University of London, Susan Himmelweit, Emeritus Professor of Economics, Open University, Dr Sara Gorgoni, Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of Greenwich, Dr Sara Maioli, Lecturer in Economics, Newcastle University, Dr Satoshi Miyamura, Lecturer in the Economy of Japan, SOAS University of London, Shawky Arif, The University of Northampton, Simon Wren-Lewis, Professor of Economic Policy, Oxford University, Professor Steve Keen, Department of Economics, Kingston University, Professor Engelbert Stockhammer, Kingston University, Simon Mohun, Emeritus Professor of Political Economy, Queen Mary University of London, Dr Sunil Mitra Kumar, Lecturer in Economics, King’s College London, Susan Newman, Senior Lecturer of Economics, University of West England, Dr Susan Pashkoff, Economist, Dr Suzanne J Konzelmann, Director, Postgraduate Programmes in Corporate Governance and Business Ethics, Director, London Centre for Corporate Governance and Ethics, Co-Executive Editor, Cambridge Journal of Economics, Tom Palley, Former Chief Economist, US-China Economic and Security Review Commission, Tomás Rotta, Lecturer in Economics, University of Greenwich, Trevor Evans, Emeritus Professor of Economics, Berlin School of Economics and Law, Germany, Will Davies, Reader in Political Economy, Goldsmiths, University of London, Dr William Van Lear, Economics Professor, Belmont Abbey College, USA, Yanis Varoufakis, Former Minister of Finance, Greece, Yannis Dafermos, Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of the West of England, José Gabriel Palma, University of Cambridge, Yulia Yurchenko, University of Greenwhich, Laurie Macfarlane, Economics Editor, Open Democracy, Meghnad Desai, London School of Economics, Clive Lawson, University of Cambridge, Professor Lawrence King, University of Cambridge

I've found it to be true, that for every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert.
 
500,000 is <1% of UK population and we're supposed to be ruled by the nasty, heartless Tories. Germany and France are much more wealth distributive economies than the UK and yet many more people require food banks. I don't know why this is, as I would have thought the opposite were true; but it shows high taxes and public spending don't necessarily lead to the outcomes you would expect.

With France, the answer is likely to be found in the unemployment rate of 9.6%.

In the case of Germany, income inequality is on the rise. This doesn't seem to fully explain the problem though, as unemployment is still lower than the UK, out-of-work benefits are more generous, and living costs are lower. There should be less need for food banks than in the UK. I guess it's all relative though; if the facility is there and people feel like they need it, they will use it.
 
While I agree in principle, it feels like this election (more than most) is one where every vote counts.

If you're in a marginal seat and you feel strongly (either for or against the Conservatives) I think you've got to vote tactically.

My constituency is so messed up it is almost comedic - its almost impossible to know how to vote this time around even tactically - unless voters return en mass for a Lib Dem resurrection pretty much any vote is effectively a Tory vote.
 
With France, the answer is likely to be found in the unemployment rate of 9.6%.

In the case of Germany, income inequality is on the rise. This doesn't seem to fully explain the problem though, as unemployment is still lower than the UK, out-of-work benefits are more generous, and living costs are lower. There should be less need for food banks than in the UK. I guess it's all relative though; if the facility is there and people feel like they need it, they will use it.

I would expect the number of food banks to be related to the supply of re distributed food. If the trend or legislation pushes supermarkets and food producers to donate more, the potential for setting up a food bank is also likely to grow.

As charitable/environmental endeavour goes, I'm not opposed to food banks per se, the rise of non job zero hours that seems to have coincided with a rapid growth of food bank usage here is a different issue. As I understand it the wider spread usage of Food Banks in Germany also caters to a wider demographic than the UK.
 
The question I asked was: "Are you happy with the state having to top up the pay of private companies?

You didn't answer meaningfully.

You didn't say "top up" you just talked about companies having the government pay the wages of company employees. I didn't know what you were talking about. And I still don't know what you're talking about. Are you talking about benefits? Is that what you meant when you talked about the government paying the wages of a company's employees? Employees aren't property or pets. An employer doesn't take on sole responsibility for an employee when hired. Is that what you want? Do you imagine that if someone is hired, the company should be responsible for paying them extra if they have children or rent instead of owning a house? You think a company should be beholden to employees for any social costs? And if you don't mean benefits (which I'm still not sure you do), then I'm lost as to what the Hell you're talking about. Please drop the hyperbolic language and just actually specifically state what you mean and an example of it happening.


Answer this question: resources are a) finite or b) infinite.

Big universe. I'm going to go with C) Effectively Infinite. I'm not big on being told what answers I can choose from.

You say "wealth is infinite", but I don't care how many paintings or Justin Bieber tracks you have bought, and nor do working class families. Things like housing are more pressing, and housing isn't infinite, nor is space, nor the building materials needed.

Well I guess that's why I didn't write "by Wealth I mean only the things that FoxEye considers to have value". I could address what you say if you wish, but I'm unclear how it relates to what I actually wrote. I'm presuming you intend me to be defending my original post but I can't see how what you're saying is an attack on it. It just seems like drift to me. I mean lets take housing. Your argument earlier was that everything should be shared out equally. My point was that wealth didn't just exist for us to stumble upon and divvy up. Not since we stopped defining wealth as finding an elk to eat. (And even then, one group went to the effort of going out looking for it). Houses don't just exist. They take quite a lot of effort and expertise to build. People have to learn the trade or study engineering. Bricks don't just appear. They have to be made. Factories to make bricks don't just grow. They have to be built to. Out of bricks, probably. Point is an argument that everything should be shared out equally presumes that it is a finite resource that is found. Wealth isn't. It's something people create. You argued that any wealth one person has, is at the expense of everybody else. But if wealth is created by individuals and groups, then that logically is not so. And that is the case.

Social mobility is on a downward trajectory at this moment in time.

But what I wrote is true - it's far higher currently than it has been at many points in history and besides - this is something you have introduced but which doesn't negate anything I wrote in my original post.
 
Do refugees use food banks in France and Germany? That could account for the high figures.
(I really have no idea)
 
@h4rm0ny

You are - or appear to be - saying that the 5% can have an ever greater share of the nation's wealth without the 95% having less. Is that a correct summation of your argument?

Because it's not an argument that any commentator, economist, or politician has put forwards.

Nobody, in fact, appears to be saying this bar yourself.

You haven't understood what I wrote. I wont repeat it as it would just be the same post again. Please re-read if that's what you think I said.
 
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