Poll: Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Mk II

[Ayahuasca]

If the NHS does become privatised what will happen with say private care given by employers? Will the inevitable cost increase deter them from handing it out so freely as there's a lot of even working class people who have access to private healthcare through employment.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I expect Labour's spending plans to completely collapse. My first point is on their expected tax receipts. The IFS estimate that they won't get anywhere near raising what they want. Thats the first point, the second problem I have is that the IFS are assuming advanced growth under Labour due to their infrastructure spending, but I don't think this will materialise, simply because if you take Crossrail as an example, this was a project that was given the OK in 2007, began construction 2 years later in 2009 and is expected to be completed in December 2018. So that is a total of 10 years from start to completion. The Labour manifesto is full of Crossrail like projects. (Cross rail 2, new Brighton mainline, HS2 extended to Scotland etc) It takes decades for these projects to bear fruits. Thats not to say I don't want to see these projects not undertake. To the contrary, I absolutely do 100%. I just think that the evidence is overwhelming that by the end of Labours first term the public finances wont be in a great shape and taxes will go up (OK, thats fine) or the infrastructure projects get cancelled.

Oh dear.

One of the big benefits from large construction projects is the IMMEDIATE impact on trades and the ripple of their spending. On very large projects this is often into all sorts of local services you wouldnt even consider, B&Bs, sandwich vans etc
people spending money makes the economy happen, look at the demise in an area to see what happens when the cycle is broken, such as a mining town, do you think 95% of the people worked in that industry? No, but they supported many others, who supported others and it rolls round. Its the whole premise behind the government spending to stimulate GDP.
Its one of the reasons why eg in the netherlands they went for a massive infrastructure rebuilding program when the financial crash happened. The ripple stopped people losing jobs, who stopped other people losing jobs etc

If there is one thing that will give you both short term and long term benefit its infrastructure building, assuming you do the right things of course.

 

[Greebo]

You know who has been missing throughout this entire campaign? The Chancellor.

Thats cause hes sacked after his self employed NI blunder. He jumped the gone. That isnt going to happen until after Thursdays. Rumours are Amber Rudd is the new chancellor and Hammond is gone for good.

Which is a shame as he's the only Tory cabinet member I can currently get behind.

 

[McGray]

Rudd as Chancellor, yikes.

 

[Rosbif]

Oh dear.

One of the big benefits from large construction projects is the IMMEDIATE impact on trades and the ripple of their spending. On very large projects this is often into all sorts of local services you wouldnt even consider, B&Bs, sandwich vans etc
people spending money makes the economy happen, look at the demise in an area to see what happens when the cycle is broken, such as a mining town, do you think 95% of the people worked in that industry? No, but they supported many others, who supported others and it rolls round. Its the whole premise behind the government spending to stimulate GDP.
Its one of the reasons why eg in the netherlands they went for a massive infrastructure rebuilding program when the financial crash happened. The ripple stopped people losing jobs, who stopped other people losing jobs etc

If there is one thing that will give you both short term and long term benefit its infrastructure building, assuming you do the right things of course.

I should add that I don't actually dispute any of the points you're raising. I just go back to the main thrust of my argument, Crossrail was agreed in 2007, work then began TWO YEARS LATER. How many of these proposed projects in the Labour manifesto are even READY to be approved? I bet most of them have to be drawn up first before they even go through consultation. I should probably amend my statement actually, Labour might not even get near spending what they intend to spend on infrastructure within their first term.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I should add that I don't actually dispute any of the points you're raising. I just go back to the main thrust of my argument, Crossrail was agreed in 2007, work then began TWO YEARS LATER. How many of these proposed projects in the Labour manifesto are even READY to be approved? I bet most of them have to be drawn up first before they even go through consultation. I should probably amend my statement actually, Labour might not even get near spending what they intend to spend on infrastructure within their first term.

Totally, regeneration type stuff is quick to do, such as resurfacing
As soon as you need public consultation, detailed engineering etc the timescales go way out.

Crossrail however is a logistical nightmare. I mean its harder to think of a worse place to undertake such a level of construction than London.
Its built up, its got history so issue to do with that.

But your right, unless the projects ready, or almost they wont get shovels in the ground for years potentially.
Heathrow 3rd runway is the sort of thing, you can make the decision, but you want do much for years. Although lots of consultants will start to make some money quickly

 

[Greebo]

But Labour outsourced more services to the private sector than the Tories have...

Source? Cause the last figures I saw from the department of health was Labour outsourced 6% and now the Tories have outsourced 12.9% so slightly more than Labour plus May is all for selling all the assets to private companies and having hospitals lease everything back so that will become much larger.

 

[His Divine Shadow]

I say we vote for the one who says they can first strike nukes.....

 

[Uther]

... and she appeared again on Sky News just recently for another car crash interview. That sort of arrogance to me indicates that she's not the sort of person who will ever admit that they've got something wrong, and that is very worrying for a potential Home Secretary.

Are you talking about Rudd or May here?

 

["andy"]

Grr the big bad Tories making everyone poorer. I don't think they've taken the measures they've taken for a laugh, there will be a lot of heavy book balancing going on. Labour spend it all, Tories clean up the mess. Always .

They took them measures because they thought it was the best way out of the global recession.

Turns out it wasn't... And the countries who did the opposite and grew their way out are booming while we really aren't.

Even still it's not a huge problem. We didn't get worse. Just never got any better... The big problem is that they won't admit they where wrong and won't try anything different .

I don't understand the mentality that richer people should be taxed loads more. I know a number of very successful businesspeople and they all have one thing in common: they work damn hard.

The guys working for them work damn hard and the people buying/using their services work damn hard. The people keeping all of them safe or looking after them when ill work damn hard . The teachers that taught the lot of them work damn hard.etc etc

Someone making half a million a year is surely getting a whole lot more out of the country and it's many resources than someone on the lower tax rate

 

[MadMossy]

I can completely attest to the above, I have a fair number of shops that I deal with in my region, several of which have a large factory literally around the corner, when that factory shuts, the local shops literally just stop, trade tanks without the factory, this is only a small town, when the likes of coal mines, steel works are shut the impact can be much greater and far reaching. Building on infrastructure and industry is what the country needs, our productive capacity has all but gone and were suffering because of it. We cannot rely on the financial and digital industry to sustain our economy we need to get back to making this again.

 

[Rosbif]

Totally, regeneration type stuff is quick to do, such as resurfacing
As soon as you need public consultation, detailed engineering etc the timescales go way out.

Crossrail however is a logistical nightmare. I mean its harder to think of a worse place to undertake such a level of construction than London.
Its built up, its got history so issue to do with that.

But your right, unless the projects ready, or almost they wont get shovels in the ground for years potentially.
Heathrow 3rd runway is the sort of thing, you can make the decision, but you want do much for years. Although lots of consultants will start to make some money quickly

I suppose one thing they could commit to is building the Manchester to Birmingham portion of HS2 in parallel with the London to Birmingham route? The only other thing I can see them doing is basically flooding the Country with Wind/Solar farms. Third runway at Heathrow. Hmm, I can see Corbyn running into all kinds of problems with that within the Labour Party. I'm not sure Corbyn is all that happy with 3rd runway? The outlook is bleak in my view. These infrastructure decision have to be part of the regular discourse of politics and backed by 'cross party consensus' yada yada.

 

["andy"]

See exactly the same around here. The steelworks left to die and whole communities struggling as a knock on effect.

 

[Rosbif]

See exactly the same around here. The steelworks left to die and whole communities struggling as a knock on effect.

Where you from? (If you dont mind saying)

 

[Rannoch]

It's like some kind of Bourne Identity thriller where you can imagine the Labour office going "She's gone rogue, we need to find Abbott and shut her down"

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I suppose one thing they could commit to is building the Manchester to Birmingham portion of HS2 in parallel with the London to Birmingham route? The only other thing I can see them doing is basically flooding the Country with Wind/Solar farms. Third runway at Heathrow. Hmm, I can see Corbyn running into all kinds of problems with that within the Labour Party. I'm not sure Corbyn is all that happy with 3rd runway? The outlook is bleak in my view. These infrastructure decision have to be part of the regular discourse of politics and backed by 'cross party consensus' yada yada.

The other problem when undertaking some big projects is that you tend to want experts from other projects. You mention crossrail, some of the tunnelers would have been targetted affecting start date.
Proven project managers need to be available. Lots of skilled trades.
The longer the horizon you have the easier to get good people signed up.

Its why one of the things that hurts our house supply is the lack of council building, they would build during boom and bust. Private companies pretty much shut up during the bust, lay everyone off, or dont sign any more works to subbies and thats it.
Then we get a boom, there arent enough skilled trades available, cos they arent training either whilst they are not working, and we get a supply shortage which restricts output at the time when people need it.

 

[h4rm0ny]

First time I've actually seen a poll on here that Labour are in front on.

I can still see a conservative win, but she called this to strengthen her position. It's back fired massively I feel, I can see trouble at the top in the coming months.

It's shown so many signs of being rushed and inept by the Tories that I'm beginning to take seriously the theory that it's to get away from the Conservative MPs who may be charged with breaking of election rules. There are about twenty-four of them so it has the potential to be a big scandal. Maybe with the Tories so far ahead in the polls, May thought they could just skirt the whole issue and re-run everything. Maybe get a few extra seats at the time. Also, perhaps it was thought that a resounding defeat in a GE might budge Corbyn and return Labour to the control of good, centrist members like Blair who kick up less of a fuss about things like Syria or human rights.

I don't know. It's just looking increasingly as if the Tories managed to surprise themselves by calling an election.

Dianne Abbott being held in a secure location with no access to communication devices until Thursday 10pm

 

[Rosbif]

The other problem when undertaking some big projects is that you tend to want experts from other projects. You mention crossrail, some of the tunnelers would have been targetted affecting start date.
Proven project managers need to be available. Lots of skilled trades.
The longer the horizon you have the easier to get good people signed up.

Its why one of the things that hurts our house supply is the lack of council building, they would build during boom and bust. Private companies pretty much shut up during the bust, lay everyone off, or dont sign any more works to subbies and thats it.
Then we get a boom, there arent enough skilled trades available, cos they arent training either whilst they are not working, and we get a supply shortage which restricts output at the time when people need it.

Its so funny that you mention this. I was thinking yesterday that with the benefit of hindsight, if the government in 2008/9 had stepped in and given the House builders huge bulk orders for oh I don't know, £50 - 75bn worth of housing stock to be built, just look at the capital gain the government would have been sitting on right now. If you look at the interest spread on government bonds vs rental yields its a no brainer in my mind to have the government build (or just purchase direct from the builders) housing stock and rent it out. They'd make a profit!

 

[chroniclard]

... and she appeared again on Sky News just recently for another car crash interview. That sort of arrogance to me indicates that she's not the sort of person who will ever admit that they've got something wrong, and that is very worrying for a potential Home Secretary.

Not really, all politicians are pretty much the same. The worrying thing is she is an idiot.

 

[Angilion]

Okay, having weighed up everything, here is my prediction for Friday morning: Tories will have won the election with a minimum of a fifty seat lead, more likely a hundred seats There'll be no hung parliament or Labour win.

If I am wrong, I will humbly request a name change to something that correctly reflects my failure.

Diane Abbott?

No, that's too nasty for a name change suggestion.

That's Abbot levels of scary to be honest.

It'll be OK. She'll know the right hashtags to remove the deficit.