Tower block fire - london

Caracus2k said:
their leader just this week suggested the state should arbitrarily (and unnecessarily) seize private property to be doled out as the state saw fit
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Well apparently Simon Cowell's house is nearby - I might just change my stance on seizing empty property :p

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40300269

Have kind of mixed feelings on that its a bit cynical on one hand but on the other it is nice to see people like that doing something.
 
Vonhelmet said:
Give me the actual line.
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here for one example

Asked by ITV interviewer Robert Peston if he would “seize it forever, or just just take it for as long as they’re needed”, he replied: “Occupy, compulsory purchase it, requisition it, there’s a lot of things you can do."

Note how he dodged the question about how long it would be 'seized' for......and used the word 'occupy' alongside the slightly less sinister 'requisition' (which suggests the government seizing items when it really is necessary like in an actual war... and also compulsory purchases which would be 1) prohibitively expensive in west London and 2) would take some time so would be of no use to those displaced.....

For the Grenfell disaster (and in general) it is totally unnecessary, unprincipled and wrong to suggest that the state seizing land is the answer to homelessness
 
Caracus2k said:
here for one example

Asked by ITV interviewer Robert Peston if he would “seize it forever, or just just take it for as long as they’re needed”, he replied: “Occupy, compulsory purchase it, requisition it, there’s a lot of things you can do."

Note how he dodged the question how long it would be 'seized' for......and used the word 'occupy'

For the Grenfell disaster (and in general) it is totally unnecessary, unprincipled and wrong to suggest that the state seizing land is the answer
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His earlier comment(s) on it at the time of the tragedy were ambiguous and the sentiment atleast wasn't entirely out of place but his reinforcement of it with a considered response like that should have people's alarm bells ringing :(

No one will deny the state of housing, etc. is less than ideal but pushing that kind of direction is completely wrong.
 
Caracus2k said:
basically he's a Marxist............ be aware of what you are voting for...........
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Didn't he crack a joke about Mao Zedongs budget book or something? Also wasn't there a pretty damning video about him basically admitting to being a firm believer in Marxism and how he celebrated the financial crisis?
 
Caracus2k said:
basically he's a Marxist............ be aware of what you are voting for...........
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I'd actually differ on that - Corbyn is a mixture - almost but not quite a champagne Socialist, almost but not quite a Marxist, etc. he leans in that direction but is much less defined by it than some others in the party.
 
I read this as a non spun response from that article.

“Can’t we as a society just think all of us? It’s all very well putting our arms around people during the crisis but homelessness is rising the housing crisis getting worse, and my point was quite a simple one, in an emergency you have to bring all assets to the table in order to deal with that crisis and that is what I think we should be doing in this case.”

I'm not sure what's wrong with the above!
 
in a general sense there isn't, but that isn't what people are criticising rather it is his statement re: compulsory purchase that people are jumping on
 
dowie said:
not particularly - would you expect people not to 'bicker' if UKIP or the Conservatives counted self declared fascists among the leadership/high ranking members? Sure you could point at their manifesto and claim they're no where near fascism but surely the ideology of key members would be concerning too?
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Why do you imagine that the writings of someone like Marx is essentially the same as an ideal like fascism?
 
stewski said:
I read this as a non spun response from that article.

“Can’t we as a society just think all of us? It’s all very well putting our arms around people during the crisis but homelessness is rising the housing crisis getting worse, and my point was quite a simple one, in an emergency you have to bring all assets to the table in order to deal with that crisis and that is what I think we should be doing in this case.”

I'm not sure what's wrong with the above!
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Everything is wrong with it given his proposed solution! Do I really need to spell out what happens when the state can arbitrarily order private citizens or companies properties to be 'occupied' or 'requisitioned' (*because lets be real compulsory purchase takes years and would cost too much)???

He even went on to acknowledge that in other problems (airline delays) that people are put up in hotels! Seizing property is 1) not necessary and 2) completely immoral and unsustainable...............

Wolves in sheep's clothing stewski Wolves in sheep's clothing!
 
Old Man said:
How can they do this to people!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4615054/Survivors-freaked-offered-accommodation.html
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I wouldnt trust that woman in the video linked there as far as i could throw her to be honest.

There is another video of her on you tube ranting and raving about how the real death toll is 500 - 600 people and she knows this as a fact.

claiming she had lost childhood friends in the fire. but people in the comments section having identified her real name says she is a dj from canada { cant remember exactly and cant find video again to check}

People are saying how could she have lost childhood friends in the fire when she only came to london a few years ago.

I think the situation on the ground there is getting realy out of hand so many chancers and attention seekers jumping in front of cameras and talking garbage

Doesnt help the victims or the families at all.

In fact with the council seeming to go absent and no other ''official'' helpers on the ground why didnt they just draft in 100 or so troops the aid would have been sorted and everyone in a new place within a day i bet
 
stewski said:
Blaming Marx for mass death in some states seems a bit like blaming Adam Smith for people being mugged!
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being 'mugged' occurs to people in all sorts of political environments... Marxism and fascism have direct paths from their respective ideologies that lead to totalitarianism and mass death
 
Rincewindle said:
I wouldnt trust that woman in the video linked there as far as i could throw her to be honest.

There is another video of her on you tube ranting and raving about how the real death toll is 500 - 600 people and she knows this as a fact.

claiming she had lost childhood friends in the fire. but people in the comments section having identified her real name says she is a dj from canada { cant remember exactly and cant find video again to check}
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Correct:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF4lt889_F0

She's an attention seeking pathetic liar and it's sad that the media aren't doing basic checks on these randoms trying to get their face in the news.
 
Caracus2k said:
being 'mugged' occurs to people in all sorts of political environments... Marxism and fascism have direct paths from their respective ideologies that lead to totalitarianism and mass death
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So what in the writings of Marx do you feel advocates totalitarianism and/or mass death?

As I said earlier from my limited reading, you might as well suggest Adam Smith's invisible hand stole your wallet.

Additionally, I'm not convinced any of the states mentioned are specifically Marxist. Like Smith, Marx wrote at length about social behaviours and methods of production/social organisation, Where did he advocate totalitarian government or mass death?

I can't see why anyone would suggest Nazi's/Fascism are due to Smiths ideals specifically and I still don't see how it's more correct to blame Marx's or his ideas for other totalitarian governments.
 
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