This 'sugar tax' crap is doing my head in!

[Sao_Sin]

I wish companies would actually put some money into R&D for a healthy drink. Water is all well and good but sometimes it's nice to have something different, especially for the kids and it would be great if there was a genuinely healthy alternative. Vitamin water maybe?

 

[MooMoo444]

need a hashtag to post offenders

Not really shocking tho is it? Fruit juice has always been bad for you. All of the sugar and none of the fibre. If you want fruit, eat fruit.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Aspartame is one of the most studies compounds in good history.
The rubbish about it found online is well rubbish.
How much were you drinking it can cause palpation a in a few individuals at very high levels.

I also feel worse if I drink something with artificial sweetners in it over sugar. I've felt so even when only realising afterwards and going back and checking. I don't know if that's a direct physical effect or indirect from the fact it tastes off to me and leaves an unpleasant taste in my mouth.

Governments have a lousy history of legislating what is healthy and what is not and I reject that they have a right to try and control what I can and cannot eat.

 

[jpaul]

Not really shocking tho is it? Fruit juice has always been bad for you

guess I had not realised it, and innocent in particular, was more sugar than 7-up -
they had a distinctive new add on tv last night & there was a wall off innocent stuff in Waitrose.

There should be an advertising branding legislation where names of products names cannot be misleading nouns./adjectives

 

[Angilion]

Funny man! Stuff with sweetener tastes bitter to me. It tastes absolutely awful, it's genuinely something I'm not gonna get used to because it tastes so foul.

Which sweetener? There are several. Also, you are not a lot of people. Some people taste some sweeteners as having a bitter aftertaste, but a lot of people tasting all sweeteners as bitter is a much stronger claim. Can you support it?

 

[Angilion]

guess I had not realised it, and innocent in particular, was more sugar than 7-up -
they had a distinctive new add on tv last night & there was a wall off innocent stuff in Waitrose.

There should be an advertising branding legislation where names of products names cannot be misleading nouns./adjectives

I'm sure the company's lawyer could get around that legislation. What does "innocent" mean in the context of a drink?

 

[MooMoo444]

I'm sure the company's lawyer could get around that legislation. What does "innocent" mean in the context of a drink?

Not guilty of buying sugar free drinks your honour! Innocent!

 

[h4rm0ny]

Which sweetener? There are several. Also, you are not a lot of people. Some people taste some sweeteners as having a bitter aftertaste, but a lot of people tasting all sweeteners as bitter is a much stronger claim. Can you support it?

It's stunningly improbable that if spoffle and myself both find an unpleasant aftertaste from artificial sweetners, that there aren't also a lot of others who find the same.

But leaving aside simple probability and the civility of treating other posters' claims as credible, yes - we can support that. These are known properties of artificial sweetners. Indeed, one of the chief reasons you find Aspatame and Acesulfame K together in the same products is because to some extent blending them can mask the bitter after taste.

From Wikipedia:

Acesulfame K is 200 times sweeter than sucrose (common sugar), as sweet as aspartame, about two-thirds as sweet as saccharin, and one-third as sweet as sucralose. Like saccharin, it has a slightly bitter aftertaste, especially at high concentrations. Kraft Foods patented the use of sodium ferolate to mask acesulfame's aftertaste. Acesulfame K is often blended with other sweeteners (usually sucralose or aspartame). These blends are reputed to give a more sucrose-like taste whereby each sweetener masks the other's aftertaste, or exhibits a synergistic effect by which the blend is sweeter than its components. Acesulfame potassium has a smaller particle size than sucrose, allowing for its mixtures with other sweeteners to be more uniform.

Additionally, latest research on aspartame found NO to reduction to diabetes or obesity. And some studies have shown that Acesulfame K can lead to weight gain because it leads to people over-injesting calories.

It's pretty much immaterial, though because it DOES taste unpleasant to people and the government should NOT have the right to control what I eat. Thanks to this I now find it significantly harder to find a fizzy drink that I enjoy.

 

[jpaul]

More of a coffee/tea person, but if I was consuming fizzy drinks, concern about damage to teeth would be an issue, not sure what people do to mitigate this ?
yes - have a toothbrush at work, but you are not meant to brush teeth when enamel has just been softened by acid,
(maybe you have to chew gum, or eat/drink dairy products to neutralize acid.)

 

[Glaucus]

I also feel worse if I drink something with artificial sweetners in it over sugar. I've felt so even when only realising afterwards and going back and checking. I don't know if that's a direct physical effect or indirect from the fact it tastes off to me and leaves an unpleasant taste in my mouth.

Governments have a lousy history of legislating what is healthy and what is not and I reject that they have a right to try and control what I can and cannot eat.

My statements have had zero to do with goverment legislation but scientific studies.

 

[h4rm0ny]

My statements have had zero to do with goverment legislation but scientific studies.

And my post was a reply to Angillion.

 

[Glaucus]

And my post was a reply to Angillion.

Then whyq uote me and make no mention of teh fact you were replying to someone else.
As to your statement on the other research. You really should read it and understand what they actually did and why they had to use the words like may.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Then whyq uote me and make no mention of teh fact you were replying to someone else.
As to your statement on the other research. You really should read it and understand what they actually did and why they had to use the words like may.

Apologies. You went back further than I thought. In that case, the first line of my post was replying to your quote. The part about government legislation was my general opinion and not about you.

 

[Angilion]

It's stunningly improbable that if spoffle and myself both find an unpleasant aftertaste from artificial sweetners, that there aren't also a lot of others who find the same.

But leaving aside simple probability and the civility of treating other posters' claims as credible, yes - we can support that. These are known properties of artificial sweetners. Indeed, one of the chief reasons you find Aspatame and Acesulfame K together in the same products is because to some extent blending them can mask the bitter after taste.

Spoffle's claim for themself is credible. Spoffle's claim for lots of other people is not credible by itself. Treating unsubstantiated claims for millions of poeple as credible just because someone makes the claim is not a matter of civility.

And yes, some sweeteners have a bitter aftertaste for some people. As you note, that's why sweeteners are often combined in order to counter that effect. Can you provide some evidence to support your claim that it doesn't work for a lot of people? Also, how many are you counting as "a lot" in this context? 10,000 people is a lot...but not as a percentage of billions.

Additionally, latest research on aspartame found NO to reduction to diabetes or obesity. And some studies have shown that Acesulfame K can lead to weight gain because it leads to people over-injesting calories.

There have been studies showing both ways, even if you exclude the studies on mice. I'm not advocating for all sugar to be replaced with sweeteners, certainly not the ones available today. Some of the claims about them are bunk, but there's enough evidence of adverse effects or ineffectiveness to make some caution a good idea. Which is why I now drink mostly water.

It's pretty much immaterial, though because it DOES taste unpleasant to people and the government should NOT have the right to control what I eat. Thanks to this I now find it significantly harder to find a fizzy drink that I enjoy.

There are still plenty of fizzy drinks that don't contain sweeteners other than sugar. If they now contain lots of sugar but not as much as before (e.g. 7-up reduced sugar from 38g in a 330ml can to 26g in a 330ml can), you're free to add more sugar to them yourself if you like.

 

[spoffle]

Spoffle's claim for themself is credible. Spoffle's claim for lots of other people is not credible by itself. Treating unsubstantiated claims for millions of poeple as credible just because someone makes the claim is not a matter of civility.

And yes, some sweeteners have a bitter aftertaste for some people. As you note, that's why sweeteners are often combined in order to counter that effect. Can you provide some evidence to support your claim that it doesn't work for a lot of people? Also, how many are you counting as "a lot" in this context? 10,000 people is a lot...but not as a percentage of billions.



There have been studies showing both ways, even if you exclude the studies on mice. I'm not advocating for all sugar to be replaced with sweeteners, certainly not the ones available today. Some of the claims about them are bunk, but there's enough evidence of adverse effects or ineffectiveness to make some caution a good idea. Which is why I now drink mostly water.



There are still plenty of fizzy drinks that don't contain sweeteners other than sugar. If they now contain lots of sugar but not as much as before (e.g. 7-up reduced sugar from 38g in a 330ml can to 26g in a 330ml can), you're free to add more sugar to them yourself if you like.

Can you show me where I made a claim for or about a lot of people that isn't credible?

I literally just said a lot of people dislike the taste of sweeteners. All you need to do is go to social media pages for the likes of Ribena and Lucozade to see people moaning about the awful taste.

I'm not suggesting that it's everyone, and you know that. But my point is that for me, and other people, the biggest issue with sweeteners is that they taste horrible.

I can tell straight away when something has sweeteners in, they all have a foul taste. The only time I find sweeteners palatable, or even sometimes unnoticeable is when it's combined with milk proteins.

Which corroborates something I heard a while back that was related to how sweeteners work when combined with certain proteins. For example, whey protein with sweeteners in I find I can actually enjoy.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Spoffle's claim for themself is credible. Spoffle's claim for lots of other people is not credible by itself. Treating unsubstantiated claims for millions of poeple as credible just because someone makes the claim is not a matter of civility.

You have skipped my argument. It is implausible to suppose that Spoffle and I experience this but that there are not lots of other people who also do.

And yes, some sweeteners have a bitter aftertaste for some people. As you note, that's why sweeteners are often combined in order to counter that effect. Can you provide some evidence to support your claim that it doesn't work for a lot of people? Also, how many are you counting as "a lot" in this context? 10,000 people is a lot...but not as a percentage of billions.

I would hope you know me well enough by now to know that if I meant a proportion, I would say a proportion. I mean there must be a huge number based on simple probability in absolute terms. And I use absolute numbers for matters of personal choice as is ethical. People who want to have a gay marriage or read Joyce Carol Oates or eat Marmite are all minorities, but our principle is to allow free choice not argue on percentage. I'm frankly baffled what you're trying to argue for here because it sounds like dismissal of choice based on proportion rather than absolute numbers. And I hope it isn't. I cannot give you accurate numbers nor should you expect me to. I am confident based on simple realism that we're talking a great deal more than 10,000 though, unless overclocking enthusiasts have some hidden disposition towards disliking artificial sweetners!

There have been studies showing both ways, even if you exclude the studies on mice. I'm not advocating for all sugar to be replaced with sweeteners, certainly not the ones available today. Some of the claims about them are bunk, but there's enough evidence of adverse effects or ineffectiveness to make some caution a good idea. Which is why I now drink mostly water.

Which is entirely your choice. But "studies both ways" doesn't argue for (what appears to be) your case, it argues for mine - which is that the science is not settled and therefore it's inappropriate to make heavy-handed rulings on one side of it. Especially in combination with the government doing so overriding something as basic as controlling people's choice of what to eat.

There are still plenty of fizzy drinks that don't contain sweeteners other than sugar. If they now contain lots of sugar but not as much as before (e.g. 7-up reduced sugar from 38g in a 330ml can to 26g in a 330ml can), you're free to add more sugar to them yourself if you like.

Now you're being either facetious or disingenuous. Both of which are beneath you. I go into a shop and find it has no take-away sized drinks to my taste. Do you expect me to carry around a bag of sugar and appropriately dose each can or bottle? Do you expect me to pre-plan my drinks for the day? No to both. Don't pretend this doesn't apply pressure to what I get to drink. That's the very point of it.

 

[StriderX]

To be fair, it's only your taste because it was there in the first place, they are after all artificial products, you've gotten used to them being the way they are and don't enjoy when it changes because people can't control themselves.

Do you expect there to be milk already applied in tea because it was the majority opinion on the matter? You tend to have a choice to add your own if you please at cost.

 

[h4rm0ny]

To be fair, it's only your taste because it was there in the first place, they are after all artificial products, you've gotten used to them being the way they are and don't enjoy when it changes because people can't control themselves.

Do you expect there to be milk already applied in tea because it was the majority opinion on the matter? You tend to have a choice to add your own if you please at cost.

Maybe it's because it's a change to what I like, maybe artificial sweetners just taste bad to many people naturally. No easy way to know. Either way - I object to a government that takes the attitude of manipulate my choices. Tea is an example of the market being allowed to decide. You will notice that there are no large numbers of people complaining about tea and milk as a result.

 

[spoffle]

To be fair, it's only your taste because it was there in the first place, they are after all artificial products, you've gotten used to them being the way they are and don't enjoy when it changes because people can't control themselves.

Do you expect there to be milk already applied in tea because it was the majority opinion on the matter? You tend to have a choice to add your own if you please at cost.

I always hated the way Robinsons juices tasted as a kid. I never really knew why specifically, only that they taste awful.

I assumed that cordials in general just tasted bad so I didn't drink them. Then I realised years later that the awful taste was because of sweeteners, I just didn't know what they were when growing up.

 

[h4rm0ny]

I always hated the way Robinsons juices tasted as a kid. I never really knew why specifically, only that they taste awful.

I assumed that cordials in general just tasted bad so I didn't drink them. Then I realised years later that the awful taste was because of sweeteners, I just didn't know what they were when growing up.

Seriously? Did they always have artificial sweetners? I would never drink Robinsons as a small child. Well, I obviously did sometimes but I didn't like it. I remember it was specifically that one I didn't like. Can't remember disliking any others.