@Burnsy2023 what are you again? I know you were / are involved in law enforcement but what exactly is it you do?
Stolen iPhone X
- Thread starter PiKe
- Start date
We had some expensive diagnostic equipment stolen from a workshop (>£15,000) and reported it to the police. Apart from a crime reference number, no one even came to the workplace despite having a list of possible suspects (identified through our ID badge swipe logs). Saying they weren't bothered would be downplaying it.
One of our guys trawled eBay for a few days and saw it appear listed, so he contacted the seller. Through the messages he was able to obtain their address (under the illusion that he wanted to collect) and passed it on to the police under the crime reference number. By cross-checking the list of possible subjects against the ebay address we discovered that the ebay address matched a contractor's next of kin address, so were 100% confident we knew where to send the police.
A few days went by when we heard nothing so we enquired and got a less-than stellar response i.e. "sorry, that address falls under a different force, blah blah have to wait for them to pick up the case blah blah kthxbye". The police later showed up that day to take a statement. Several more days passed and we heard nothing. It eventually took another phone call insisting that we know where the item was and that if it is sold then we are even less likely to see it, losing any hope of ever getting it back.
I can emphases with the OP because when the police did show up at the address, the next of kin panicked and admitted the whole thing
Had a similar thing happen when we had some dogs stolen. We knew where they were but the Police dragged their feet consistently. We eventually found out that the officer on charge had gone on annual leave, and that it hadn't been passed on to anyone else. In the end we kicked up a stink and got in touch with the Duty Inspector and gave him an earful. By the end of the day, we had our dogs back.
That's why they tried rebranding SOCA to the NCA model to better support national-level criminality, however they've run a-ground now - half of them are dinosaurs from the Police where they had more powers, authority and less culpability, and the other half are University grads who are frankly timid and not very inspiring to see in action. Don't get me wrong however, there are some brilliant officers in both camps, but the general pool is lacklustre. Let's not even start about their wage woes and contracts!
Gone are the days when the officer/s investigating this theft would locate the suspect, make a quick analysis of the weight of evidence, seize it, nick him then bundle in him the back of the car. If he played up he'd get a clip round the ear or even a broken rib. Tough justice doesn't have to be death sentences, but a bit of physical deterrent used to work a treat in the 80s and early-90s. All this is by-the-by though as the resources just aren't there. Yet the Gov expect the entire force (Civilians and Warranted) to do everything they did, and also kow-tow to any Government requirement thrown their way.
Someone stole your Dogs and you knew where they were? What stopped you going round when the Police didn't act?
My late Grandad was a Police Seargent in the 70's, my Dad told me a few stories, one specifically where he found out a local guy was beating his wife up. He definitely got some tough justice, I'm not joking either. Back then you didn't mess with the Police, they kept law and order.
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Man of Honour
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I'm a Special Constable. It's not my full time job, but I do work on a response team dealing with 999 calls.
Ah gotcha, thanks. It's always interesting to see your insights on matters like this for obvious reasons, even if I don't always agree with them.
And this is why people end up taking matters into their own hands.
We didn't know where they were directly else I'd have indeed gone around. We had put up a reward for information and heavily publicised it on the radio, social media etc, and someone had responded saying they knew exactly where they were.
And that's when you end up with things like vigilante mobs hounding paediatricians out of their house...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.society
Soldato
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Apple and all other major phone companies have told all national Police forces the location data is not accurate enough to give powers of entry, a warrant wouldn’t be given by a judge so it is infact an impossible mission and would be an illegal entry and search if used.
I feel you man. The police are a joke.
My phone got stolen in january, and my nephew managed to get in touch with someone who picked it up of a wall (or claimed to), and the police refused to assist in a meetup, in the end the phone got posted back to him and I got it back although the other 2 phones I lost are gone.
I also think there is discrimination as well to a degree, when my sister had ipad stolen, and was on the tracker, the police assisted and told her it was because she was a "vulnerable woman". This was about 2 years ago.
Soldato
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Happened to catch this a week or so back.
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/on-demand/68722-001
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/on-demand/68722-001
minor crime is where it starts, its always worth it, actively investigating and catching people is a deterrent, without it the country will end up in chaos.
So there is no risk to an individual to go to a thief's house to reclaim their property?
Why would the Police be involved in a civil arrangement to return lost property?
Do you expect the Police to compete your tax return or pickup your laundry for you also?
People complain Police don't investigate crime then expect them to hand hold on non Police matters. What do you want?
The bottom line is a result of endless cuts. Police don't deal with crime anymore. Glorified Social and Mental Health workers. The Police have to balance demand versus resources which are limited.
A theft by finding of an iPhone is simply not a priority in the face of more serious matters with potential grave consequences with the limited resources to deal with it.
What people are suggesting should be done have no insight into what is required.
- Record victim complaint statement
- Dedicate officers to technical enquiries
- Consult the with technical departments and staff
- Dedicate officers to satisfy a location
- Research location, intelligence, suspects (if any) and any other information
- Construct paperwork to present and try to get a warrant sworn
- Construct an operational order to the brief resources (if you even got a warrant sworn, unlikely)
- Round up method of entry officers, officers to enter / detain / search, any other specialist roles that may be required dependant on locale and other risk assessments
- locate item (if you even got the right address)
- If found, and if person suspected, arrest
- Transport to custody and book in
- Looks like a drug den, get a drug dependant detainee
- Wait until sober (if under influence) to interview
- Have seen by Police Doctor, give medication
- Most likely Bail as case will not meet evidential test threshold and CPS won't agree charge
- Conduct further enquiries to try build a viable case
- likely end up with no further action
Claim on the insurance, move on.
Sorry but your post shouts whats wrong with society today, just put it all on insurance and everything is fine and dandy, crime is now fine because we can recover with insurance, sorry I dont agree with that one bit, especially when not everyone is insured and those that are insured will have higher premiums as a result of insurance companies paying out more claims.
Also how does insurance compensate for things like lost personal photos and other priceless items.
If work equipment is lost does insurance compensate for loss of earnings as well?
How is a criminal deterred if the only reaction to his/her crime is someone makes an insurance claim.
I watched that dispatches show last night and it was interesting, one guy said the same thing, minor crime has to be prioritised, simply because its considered "gateway" crime, basically its where a criminal starts out at the start of their crime career.
You catch more thieves, assaulter's etc. you get more people on the criminal database, you get potential terrorists and murderers convicted.
Also you ask why would the police assist in the return of the phone, are you for real? Its incredibly strange that a phone gets stolen, then as if by magic someone offers to return it. Resolving a crime is not just about getting things like items back, but also catching criminals, the police duty here was to make sure the item was returned safely (how would I know if this guy is legit or to be trusted), and that the guy returning the phone be interviewed.
I am not arguing against that there is a priority system, I mean e.g. been a victim of hate crime wont be a pleasant thing, but the day we start accepting certain crime as normal day to day activity is effectively legalising it.
There is also probably some things the police do that they shouldnt be doing, but they do it as they say because no one else will do it. The system needs a big shake up aside from the austerity policy been reversed to get more police back in action. Not to mention streamlining the process, I would agree with the older ways that you give someone a beating as a means to deter them.
I am also a supporter of bringing the whip back to schools as well, long been a believer of that to teach children to respect people in authority.
Also how does insurance compensate for things like lost personal photos and other priceless items.
If work equipment is lost does insurance compensate for loss of earnings as well?
How is a criminal deterred if the only reaction to his/her crime is someone makes an insurance claim.
I watched that dispatches show last night and it was interesting, one guy said the same thing, minor crime has to be prioritised, simply because its considered "gateway" crime, basically its where a criminal starts out at the start of their crime career.
You catch more thieves, assaulter's etc. you get more people on the criminal database, you get potential terrorists and murderers convicted.
Also you ask why would the police assist in the return of the phone, are you for real? Its incredibly strange that a phone gets stolen, then as if by magic someone offers to return it. Resolving a crime is not just about getting things like items back, but also catching criminals, the police duty here was to make sure the item was returned safely (how would I know if this guy is legit or to be trusted), and that the guy returning the phone be interviewed.
I am not arguing against that there is a priority system, I mean e.g. been a victim of hate crime wont be a pleasant thing, but the day we start accepting certain crime as normal day to day activity is effectively legalising it.
There is also probably some things the police do that they shouldnt be doing, but they do it as they say because no one else will do it. The system needs a big shake up aside from the austerity policy been reversed to get more police back in action. Not to mention streamlining the process, I would agree with the older ways that you give someone a beating as a means to deter them.
I am also a supporter of bringing the whip back to schools as well, long been a believer of that to teach children to respect people in authority.
When people actually understand what it's like these days, they would see it from the Police's point of view....I've taken out a couple of less likely points and added in a couple of extras just to make it more realistic and put appropriate time labels to each of them.
It's not a case of kicking in the door, nicking the bad guy, sticking in an interview then charging him to court where he gets 12 years inside like on The Bill. That said, in this case, I would be disappointed that the police didn't do some enquiries to locate the phone - but then knowing what staffing is like, they're likely to be lucky to be able to answer the emergency calls let alone do anything that isn't an emergency.
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Man of Honour
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The amount of time I've wasted either waiting for a MH bed or a child foster placement is unreal. Sometimes it's will violent people who need even more scare specialist secure placements. We had a 12 year old who was violent in the Police's care from early Thursday morning to the following Monday recently as there wasn't appropriate care for her from Social Services. She needed 2 officers to restrain her almost the entire time 24/7. That was about 25% of our average shift.