AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - *** NO COMPETITOR HINTING ***

[MaXxBoulton]

£800 x570

Say what!

It is but when it comes to MATX & ITX the selection of 4 series boards are drastically reduced, would any of the SFF 4 series boards even run a 12 or 16 core Ryzen 2?

12 core yes, 16 is going to be iffy until we see real world power draw.
the real question is do you need 16 cores?
I have a b450 itx and i will be dropping an 8 core into it, i dont see need for more cores for MY!!! use case. i may even end up with a 3600x


My board - https://www.overclockers.co.uk/giga...ocket-am4-mini-itx-motherboard-mb-57h-gi.html

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

Say what!

That's not even the most expensive...

 

[Cooper]

Seems to be some really mixed feelings including anger at these x570 boards. If you don't need pcie 4 and a load of M.2 then just get an x470 surely?

If I was to buy a X470 board today, how would I get it to work with a Ryzen 3xxx if the motherboard BIOS hasn't been updated to accept them, would it even post without a BIOS update.

 

[Ross Thomson]

Is there likely to be much difference between the grades of motherboard, it will it just be features? I'm hoping for 12 core, just because I want to future proof (the term annoys me, but I'm still rocking a 2600k so I might get 10 years out of the 12 core).

my msi x470 gaming M7 has a 12 phase VRM with 46A high side and 78A low side mosfets. I can't imagine that isn't going to be enough for an overclocked 16 core running 1.4v.

 

[Murphy]

12 core yes, 16 is going to be iffy until we see real world power draw.
the real question is do you need 16 cores?
I have a b450 itx and i will be dropping an 8 core into it, i dont see need for more cores for MY!!! use case. i may even end up with a 3600x

My board - https://www.overclockers.co.uk/giga...ocket-am4-mini-itx-motherboard-mb-57h-gi.html

Even with 12 cores I'd say it's going to be iffy, it's not so much a matter of will it, won't it, run but the efficiency it runs at and if the VRMs are going to restrict sustained boosts.

Heat is more of an issue in SFF cases and having VRMs that aren't very efficient exacerbates that issue, and like you say the how many cores thing is pretty subjective.

 

[Drollic]

I'm half tempted to go x470 and 3700x now then sell on once refresh is out for presumably x670 and the top tier 12 core. Probably easier to buy the x570 now though and just drop in the 12.

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

If I was to buy a X470 board today, how would I get it to work with a Ryzen 3xxx if the motherboard BIOS hasn't been updated to accept them, would it even post without a BIOS update.

Some might have been updated, but otherwise you'd need a boot kit from AMD... Or a local friendly forum member with a gen 1 or 2 CPU.

 

[snow patrol]

after not owning a PC since 2011, i have taken my first step towards rectifying that today by purchasing a fractal define R6 case. I'm going to wait until these new chips and boards are out and then get the rest of it so hoping to have things built within a month. Far from entirely sure what I'll be getting, mind!

 

[PieEater]

New video on Gamers Nexus - takeaway point for me is that the chipset is constantly running at 11w (peak at 14-15w) and doesn't downclock so without a really decent chipset cooler I can't see the fans having a passive mode, something to consider on lower end x570 boards.

If I was to buy a X470 board today, how would I get it to work with a Ryzen 3xxx if the motherboard BIOS hasn't been updated to accept them, would it even post without a BIOS update.

I have confirmed with OCUK that they will flash a motherboard with the latest BIOS if you request this though it will take a day or so longer to arrive.

 

[Troezar]

I'm half tempted to go x470 and 3700x now then sell on once refresh is out for presumably x670 and the top tier 12 core. Probably easier to buy the x570 now though and just drop in the 12.

I considered the same but but sure I could be bothered dismantling and selling my daily driver. I may go 3800X and upgrade to 16C in a few years once the price drops and there is more need for it.

 

[Illuminist]

after not owning a PC since 2011, i have taken my first step towards rectifying that today by purchasing a fractal define R6 case. I'm going to wait until these new chips and boards are out and then get the rest of it so hoping to have things built within a month. Far from entirely sure what I'll be getting, mind!

Welcome back to the master race

 

[tamzzy]

but from past experience and what we currently know...
x570 has much beefier VRMs than x470 and b450. so by extension/speculations/assumptions/magic (or whatever you want to call it) on balance of probabilities...an x570 board's VRMs would be much better suited to running a 3900x/3950x
that's not to say that the x470/b450's aren't up to scratch...it's just that x570's are better.

Well a Low tier X570 might not be just that....
Ive tested loads of mobos...and sweeping statements like this grind my gears....

don't get your knickers in a twist.
as i said...we can only go by what's currently available out in the open currently - and with lack of concrete evidence, it's no doubt that one may draw different conclusions from this as a result.
that being said, this is what we know at the moment:

X570 Phases

look at the low-end x570 gaming x - 5 pseudo-doubled phases with 60A powerstages = 600A (granted it's of lower quality)
mid-range aorus pro - 6 true doubled phases with 40A powerstages = 480A
top end aorus ultra - 12 true phases with 50A power stages = 600A

not even going to compare the aorus master as that's a halo product

now unless you've got a top end x470 board (eg taichi/c7h), it's not going to be even close to the bottom tier x570 boards...
taichi = 2(6)*40 = 480A
c7h = 2(5)*60 = 600A

x470 strix-f = 6*60 = 360A

 

[Illuminist]

don't get your knickers in a twist.
as i said...we can only go by what's currently available out in the open currently - and with lack of concrete evidence, it's no doubt that one may draw different conclusions from this as a result.
that being said, this is what we know at the moment:


look at the low-end x570 gaming x - 5 pseudo-doubled phases with 60A powerstages = 600A (granted it's of lower quality)
mid-range aorus pro - 6 true doubled phases with 40A powerstages = 480A
top end aorus ultra - 12 true phases with 50A power stages = 600A

not even going to compare the aorus master as that's a halo product

now unless you've got a top end x470 board (eg taichi/c7h), it's not going to be even close to the bottom tier x570 boards...
taichi = 2(6)*40 = 480A
c7h = 2(5)*60 = 600A

x470 strix-f = 6*60 = 360A

How does my crappy x470 aorus ultra gaming fit in all this ?

 

[PieEater]

If the TDP of both 2000 series and 3000 series are the same 65W / 95W / 105W why is there suddenly a requirement for a power delivery hike in terms of VRMs when in theory they shouldn't need any more power especially with the die shrink?

 

[Jerry64]

How does my crappy x470 aorus ultra gaming fit in all this ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4vKun2zk6M

Go to 5 mins in talks about VRMs

 

[tamzzy]

How does my crappy x470 aorus ultra gaming fit in all this ?

its a 4 phase with pseudo-doubling with 40A powerstages = 320A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4vKun2zk6M
Go to 5 mins in talks about VRMs

yeah that...he thinks they're lower end components.

If the TDP of both 2000 series and 3000 series are the same 65W / 95W / 105W why is there suddenly a requirement for a power delivery hike in terms of VRMs when in theory they shouldn't need any more power especially with the die shrink?

because TDP is meaningless these days?
cue: 9900k

 

[Ross Thomson]

If the TDP of both 2000 series and 3000 series are the same 65W / 95W / 105W why is there suddenly a requirement for a power delivery hike in terms of VRMs when in theory they shouldn't need any more power especially with the die shrink?

if you don't overclock then yes you can stick any of the new chips into any board and they will work as advertised assuming they are cooled properly.

 

[PieEater]

If the TDP of both 2000 series and 3000 series are the same 65W / 95W / 105W why is there suddenly a requirement for a power delivery hike in terms of VRMs when in theory they shouldn't need any more power especially with the die shrink?

3800X (105W) needs less VRM than 2700X (105W) when both maxxed out !?! (Start at 6:26)

So I assume the extra VRMs are needed for the 12 core CPUs (and potentially higher with the next refresh?) that the current generation boards were not designed for.

 

[Illuminist]

its a 4 phase with pseudo-doubling with 40A powerstages = 320A



yeah that...he thinks they're lower end components.


because TDP is meaningless these days?
cue: 9900k

So in other words, Im looking at either a new motherboard or sticking with the 3700x, which is a shame because as you see in my sig, this 2700x seems to be happy on this board at above average overclocking

 

[tamzzy]

3800X (105W) needs less VRM than 2700X (105W) when both maxxed out !?! (Start at 6:26)

not surprising there though. both have same core count...2700x = 14nm+/12nm...3800x = 7nm with 14nm I/O die

So I assume the extra VRMs are needed for the 12 core CPUs (and potentially higher with the next refresh?) that the current generation boards were not designed for.

one would speculate this was the case.

So in other words, Im looking at either a new motherboard or sticking with the 3700x, which is a shame because as you see in my sig, this 2700x seems to be happy on this board at above average overclocking

not suggesting anything...but gigabyte dropped the ball with the x470/b450 boards, just as they did with the z370 boards.
i suspect that 3800x oc would be fine...
can't really say on the 3900x but i suspect the 3950x would probably run into VRM heat throttling issues