Gang of 12 'allegedly' rape British Citizen in Cyprus

Jokester said:
What if you have consensual sex and then later find out it's not a vagina/penis?
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There's a common example of this whereby a male has sex with a woman with the light off, his mate comes in and she has consentual sex because she is deceived to who it is. Still a penis but deception used to gain consent for something penetrating that is not a penis belonging to the partner. That's a common theme of sexual assault cases whereby the sex went beyond what was consented to, ie anal where only vaginal was agreed.

The crux of that news link and my above example that consent was never given for an object or another penis despite what the victim at that moment believed was happening. It's quite a straight forward point of law.

The trans issues is more about if a man has sex with a person who has all the attributes and anatomical features of a woman, breasts, vagina etc and believed it to be a woman. Can he later claim he never gave consent as he would have never consented to have sex with a biological male, despite what was physically Infront of him. After all he consentually had sex with a human form that satisfied his requirements for sex. It drills down to what it legally means to be a male/female.

That then opens the floodgates with similar cases involving deception, ie a man who pretends to be a millionaire etc. It also raises issues of whether the onus is on the victim to establish facts before giving consent or whether the suspect must make declerations.
 
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Jokester said:
What if you have consensual sex and then later find out it's not a vagina/penis?
Click to expand...
I had this once with a German girl, who unusually didn't speak any English and she lived in a church. Anyway, she, ahem, guided me and I realised after going at it a bit when I looked down :eek:. I do wonder if it was her being very religious and wanting to stay virginal or something.

Anyway, one up the bum, no harm done. :D
 
Em3bbs said:
I had this once with a German girl, who unusually didn't speak any English and she lived in a church. Anyway, she, ahem, guided me and I realised after going at it a bit when I looked down :eek:. I do wonder if it was her being very religious and wanting to stay virginal or something.

Anyway, one up the bum, no harm done. :D
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Did the aroma not give it away?

Jokester said:
What if you have consensual sex and then later find out it's not a vagina/penis?
Click to expand...

What if's could go forever though. What if he/she consents to sex, but falls asleep during.

I remember a mate of mine getting a good slap from some girl when he fell asleep during her giving him a blow job. We were downstairs at the time, but could hear the slap.
 
Thecaferacer said:
The trans issues is more about if a man has sex with a person who has all the attributes and anatomical features of a woman, breasts, vagina etc and believed it to be a woman. Can he later claim he never gave consent as he would have never consented to have sex with a biological male, despite what was physically Infront of him. After all he consentually had sex with a human form that satisfied his requirements for sex. It drills down to what it legally means to be a male/female.

That then opens the floodgates with similar cases involving deception, ie a man who pretends to be a millionaire etc. It also raises issues of whether the onus is on the victim to establish facts before giving consent or whether the suspect must make declerations.
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The post op trans woman argument is an interesting one, I suspect that case will happen somewhere in the west in our lifetimes especially as surgery will no doubt improve over time and some trans people already resort to deception when looking for partners. Obviously this can be dangerous and is one source of violence against trans people too i.e. when some drunk lad gets in a taxi on the way home then feels a meat and two veg etc.. and flips out.

There is already the case with the trans man/woman using a fake penis with the lights off, I do wonder though if a fake bio-vagina from surgery will be treated differently though - I suspect trans rights campaigners will go ballistic regardless. I presume the fake penis case did set some sort of precedent though?

As for pretending to be a millionaire etc.. no it won't open the floodgates for claims relating to that, deception as you described it (one guy swapping with another etc..) is a thing but guys and girls already lie to each other about themselves... that isn't relevant AFAIK, if the partner has consented to sexual activity with that person they're with at that time then that is fine. Pretending to be a rock star or a millionaire or whatever isn't the same as swapping places in the dark, they still agreed to have sex with you.
 
Em3bbs said:
I had this once with a German girl, who unusually didn't speak any English and she lived in a church. Anyway, she, ahem, guided me and I realised after going at it a bit when I looked down :eek:. I do wonder if it was her being very religious and wanting to stay virginal or something.

Anyway, one up the bum, no harm done. :D
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Thats a very common trick used by those that havent had the full operation yet.
A man who posed as a woman online to trick would-be suitors into blindfolded sexual encounters at his flat has been jailed.

Duarte Xavier lured four men to his home in Wandsworth, southwest London, by taking on the “convincing” persona of a young woman called “Ana” on dating apps such as Tinder.

A third victim, who had initially been too embarrassed to report the incident, said he was instructed by “Ana” to meet in King George’s Park in Wandsworth, where the pair had sex.

It was not until they met for a second time several days later that the victim saw Xavier and learned who he had intercourse with.
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Psycho Sonny said:
you have been going to the wrong parties in ayia napa if you don't think it is a possibility.

serious question how many on here have been to ayia napa on a lads holiday? i'm guessing a handful. the guys on here like to go on family destination holidays. not places where wild teens or early twenties are just looking for sex, drugs, etc.

in fact if you go onto world star. there is a video of a british woman going to a birthday party. having sex with several men, giving them blowies, then saying no more and then 5 mins later she is at it again, and again and again, she is tipsy but not blackout drunk and consenting. she goes through at least 10 of them. was a good watch.
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I've also seen it happen in Magaluf, 3 women and 7 lads, all taking it in turns, happens most nights tbh in highly populated party areas, especially when majority of people are between 18-30.
 
dowie said:
There is already the case with the trans man/woman using a fake penis with the lights off, I do wonder though if a fake bio-vagina from surgery will be treated differently though - I suspect trans rights campaigners will go ballistic regardless. I presume the fake penis case did set some sort of precedent though?
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It's unlikely to set precedent as the same offence, in the same circumstances, could be committed by a man with a penis. The trans bit just adds a bit of juice to the story.

Any new case would have to based on the victim consenting all parts of the sexual contact, before during and after but then withdrawing consent when they find out the persons identity isn't what they believed it was. The parallel you can look to is the PC Mark Kennedy one where the girls are trying to claim rape.

As soon as a case like this is successfully tried then case law will be set and watch all kinds of new claims come in.
 
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