Gang of 12 'allegedly' rape British Citizen in Cyprus

It's unlikely to set precedent as the same offence, in the same circumstances, could be committed by a man with a penis. The trans bit just adds a bit of juice to the story.

How could a man do the same? Wasn't the point of that case that she pretended to be a man. She didn't swap places with anyone etc.. pretend to be someone else, she was the person they consented to sleep with albeit she lied about something rather more fundamental than pretending to be a rock star etc...

Any new case would have to based on the victim consenting all parts of the sexual contact, before during and after but then withdrawing consent when they find out the persons identity isn't what they believed it was. The parallel you can look to is the PC Mark Kennedy one where the girls are trying to claim rape.

As soon as a case like this is successfully tried then case law will be set and watch all kinds of new claims come in.

LOL if telling porkies on a night out becomes rape then I'm in a lot of trouble, used to make up all sorts of BS when chatting to girls in bars etc... especially on holiday. Most found it humorous especially when it was deliberate and rather obvious lies, though one particularly stunning girl believed an outrageous lie and was seriously ****ed off when I messaged her after meeting on holiday and told her it wasn't true.. threatened to post about it on Instagram to all her followers (she was some wannabe influencer type albeit only a few thousand followers so not really working out!).
 
How could a man do the same? Wasn't the point of that case that she pretended to be a man. She didn't swap places with anyone etc.. pretend to be someone else, she was the person they consented to sleep with albeit she lied about something rather more fundamental than pretending to be a rock star etc...

The circumstances of the case was that he was a woman pretending to be a man but the actual offence was that he penetrated her with a sex toy when she only consented to a penis.

A man with a penis in almost identical circumstances, light off, she thinks he's going to use a penis and then uses a toy which causes pain, commits the same offence. The story is almost secondary as the fundamentals of the case was a) did he penetrate her with an object or thing and b) did she give consent to that.
 
How could a man do the same? Wasn't the point of that case that she pretended to be a man. She didn't swap places with anyone etc.. pretend to be someone else, she was the person they consented to sleep with albeit she lied about something rather more fundamental than pretending to be a rock star etc...



LOL if telling porkies on a night out becomes rape then I'm in a lot of trouble, used to make up all sorts of BS when chatting to girls in bars etc... especially on holiday. Most found it humorous especially when it was deliberate and rather obvious lies, though one particularly stunning girl believed an outrageous lie and was seriously ****ed off when I messaged her after meeting on holiday and told her it wasn't true.. threatened to post about it on Instagram to all her followers (she was some wannabe influencer type albeit only a few thousand followers so not really working out!).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

Israel had a case where someone lied about working for the state and implying the victim would get benefits. The UK does the dark room deception/lying about gender/condom broken definition, but could probably be expanded given enough cases.
 
The circumstances of the case was that he was a woman pretending to be a man but the actual offence was that he penetrated her with a sex toy when she only consented to a penis.

A man with a penis in almost identical circumstances, light off, she thinks he's going to use a penis and then uses a toy which causes pain, commits the same offence. The story is almost secondary as the fundamentals of the case was a) did he penetrate her with an object or thing and b) did she give consent to that.

Ah fair enough.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

Israel had a case where someone lied about working for the state and implying the victim would get benefits. The UK does the dark room deception/lying about gender/condom broken definition, but could probably be expanded given enough cases.

Ah damn it, why did you quote the post in full, that's potentially incriminating evidence now! :D

Does the lying about gender apply to someone who claims to have "transitioned" though? Obviously the poster above has highlighted the use of a sex toy which seems pretty logical that that would be illegal without consent. I mean would someone who was a man but now has a fake vagina be deceptive if they pretend to be a biological woman?

Edit actually it seems to be covered in the wiki you linked too, it does seem that gender was important there in the penetration with fake penis case:

wiki said:
Trans activist Sophie Cook has stated that the UK Sexual Offences Act requires transgender people to tell partners about their gender history as part of its requirements that people making sexual consent decisions can make informed consent, and that the law is an infringement on trans peoples' human rights and on their privacy.

There will definitely be a **** storm about another case in future as surgical methods improve and people start taking hormones earlier/become more passable. Not sure how it is an infringement of privacy though, seems like something fairly relevant to reveal to a sexual partner.
 
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There is already the case with the trans man/woman using a fake penis with the lights off, I do wonder though if a fake bio-vagina from surgery will be treated differently though

The law in the UK treats surgically constructed penises and Vagina's no differently from the non artificial ones.

There has been case law on this subject from an English Court from 1996 onwards and is explicitly mentioned in some more recent sexual offences legislation.

Sexual Offences Act 2003 S.79(3) said:
(3) References to a part of the body include references to a part surgically constructed (in particular, through gender reassignment surgery).

Hence a trans man (with a surgical construction approximating a penis) could legally rape another person and a trans woman (with a surgical construction approximating a vagina) could themselves be 'vaginally' raped as far as the law is concerned.

What the law does say is that you cant 1) misrepresent the act itself or 2) pretend to be a specific other person known personally to the complainant

For 2) this would include sneaking into a bed at night and pretending to be the partner of the occupant and having penetrative sex with then with yout penis (surgically constructed or otherwise)

A classic case where this could happen is with identical male twins.... if the 'other' twin sneaked into his brothers bed and had sex with his brothers partner the fact that the partner consented 'at the time' would be negated as they thought they were consenting to sex with a specific person (their partner)


NOTE: this is different from telling someone that you are an astronaut, race driver, millionaire etc to get someone else to have sex with you as the deceit needs to be the pretence that you are a specific person the victim would consent to have sex with not that you have lied about your own status or character.



For 1) to be applicable (in a scenario potentially applicable to a trans person) the deceit would need to be something like using a sex toy in place of a penis. Because the act itself has been mis represented (the victim consented to penetration with a penis not anything else in its place).

As per my above citations the law already treats surgically constructed genitalia no differently from the analogous 'natural' body parts so you could not (under UK law) be prosecuted for not mentioning that your penis or vagina is surgically constructed and you were born with genitals that dont match you current appearance.

I think the Trans activist, Sophie Cook, is referencing cases where a 'pre op' trans person would have to disclose their status and could be prosecuted if they misrepresented the act itself....Like was the case with the aforementioned pre op trans man who used a prosthetic in place of what was expected.


The relevant part of English law that covers the two sections I mention above is S.76(2) of the Sexual Offences Act 2003


(2)The circumstances are that—

(a)the defendant intentionally deceived the complainant as to the nature or purpose of the relevant act;

(b)the defendant intentionally induced the complainant to consent to the relevant act by impersonating a person known personally to the complainant.
 
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LOL Do some biblical reading..... If I wanted to read a book of fairy tales, I could find better books
 
I did - That's how I know it was still the Romans what done the killing, like, see?
The Jews merely tried the case locally and then submitted their findings to the higher authorities.

Yes, but if you hand someone over when you know they're going to be killed you're still responsible. It's the same reason we don't deport people when they face death in their home countries.

This handy BBC link makes it very clear!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/history/whokilledjesus_1.shtml
 
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LOL Do some biblical reading..... If I wanted to read a book of fairy tales, I could find better books

That's true, there are better fairy tale books out there! Then again the Magna Carta isn't a particularly good fairy tale either.
 
As per my above citations the law already treats surgically constructed genitalia no differently from the analogous 'natural' body parts so you could not (under UK law) be prosecuted for not mentioning that your penis or vagina is surgically constructed and you were born with genitals that dont match you current appearance.

I think the Trans activist, Sophie Cook, is referencing cases where a 'pre op' trans person would have to disclose their status and could be prosecuted if they misrepresented the act itself....Like was the case with the aforementioned pre op trans man who used a prosthetic in place of what was expected.

The relevant part of English law that covers the two sections I mention above is S.76(2) of the Sexual Offences Act 2003

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying that, that does seem to resolve it :)
 
Cyprus is unbelievably corrupt.

Not sure corruption has anything to do with it. The points mentioned by the lawyer seem to just relate to potential incompetence and being rather backwards - not filming/recording what happens in police stations etc...
 
Not sure corruption has anything to do with it. The points mentioned by the lawyer seem to just relate to potential incompetence and being rather backwards - not filming/recording what happens in police stations etc...
Cyprus is unbelievably corrupt.

Problem is British Media haven't reported anything other than what they want to

https://www.naftemporiki.gr/story/1...-12-israilinous-kai-allakse-tin-katathesi-tis

Use google translate.

The judge in his ruling noted that he did not get a good impression of the defendant, who did not tell the truth, tried to mislead the court, contradicted her testimony, and her testimony was characterized by a lack of logic. She noted that part of it was not submitted to witnesses and is therefore unreliable, according to philenews.

On the part of her lawyers, Ms Ritsa Pekri, seeking to mitigate the sentence for her client, made reference to her immature age, noting that she is only 19 years old. She also said that she was suffering from depression and taking medication, while referring to the provisions of the Constitution that mark the right of justice to give young people a second chance.

Even her lawyers agree with the principle of her been guilty. And lets not forget her initial lawyer refused to continue the case.
 
Even her lawyers agree with the principle of her been guilty.

If you think that pleading mitigating circumstances means that her lawyers think she's guilty you profoundly misunderstand how legal process works.

And lets not forget her initial lawyer refused to continue the case.

Her incompetent Cypriot lawyer was dropped by the girl.
 
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