Elon Musk goes to court . . .

[Werewolf]

Musk is a great visionary of our time. Pretty pathetic that all some people can do is hate on some twitter feed and drugs are bad think of the children

He's a typical tech bro type, he may have a vision but he's pretty clueless about things outside his speciality and completely unwilling to listen to the people that do know things when they disagree with his great ideas.

I admire his push for Space X, but I'm also very aware that they Silicone Valley idea of "push the boundaries, break things" is probably not a great one if it's unchecked in many fields, especially when you're talking about putting people in a vehicle that rides on a barely controlled explosion where anything going wrong tends to have nasty consequences.

I'm fairly horrified by some of the design decision with the Tesla, things like rear door manual handles that are anything but easy to get to and use in the event of an accident or a situation that results in the power cutting out so the lovely modern design asthetically pleasing push button door releases don't work (IIRC the rear door release is hidden away and hard to reach).
Safety features such as emergency releases for doors should always be both fairly obvious, and easy to reach even in (or especially in) less than ideal conditions. I can understand from a making the car pretty and "modern looking" point of view while do it, but that should never trump ease of use in an emergency.

IIRC in the cave diver incident the diver had been having trouble getting even local politicians and military to understand what the difficulties and dangers were, Musk came in with his great sounding but completely unworkable idea and when he was told no, he apparently turned up and tried to put pressure on the local people go with his idea rather than the one that the experts who knew the real conditions in cave diving were saying.
I can quite imagine even the most patient person getting a little annoyed if they're exhausted from trying to do something that is extremely dangerous and offering their advice and expertise earned over years/decades and some "genius" who has likely never done any diving other than a little recreational/basic diving (if that) comes in and starts pushing for something you know won't work.

Musk's sub reminds me of a story I heard about one of the big tech universities in the US, where for several years they'd been highlighting a wonderful, world changing idea for maximising farm yields and allowing things to be grown indoors with this really advanced high tech mini hydroponics unit where everything was controlled perfectly, and they'd demo it proudly with it's crop of lovely looking veg to would be investors and press who would normally go away and say "wow this is great, lets get some more money".
That is until a reporter who had a background in farming (and who had transitioned into tech) turns up, and recognises it as basically the same thing that many agricultural colleges had been using to teach students for decades, and when he started to look into it he found out that it didn't even work, whenever investors etc were coming in someone would be sent out to the local farmers market to buy the best looking produce possible, bring it back to the lab, clean off all the soil and put the lettuce etc into this miracle machine.
Or the wonderfully smart people who keep coming up with ideas for ways in which they could reduce congestion by creating a system that allows many people to easily share vehicles, or as the rest of the world calls them, busses.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Whether he is, or was a regular partaker of cannabis or not is irrelevant to my argument. What I am saying is that as a well liked (by impressionable young people) celebrity appearing on TV smoking cannabis is irresponsible, given its well known side effects, and in so far as those that cannot afford it or the more expensive stronger drugs they may move on to, are forced to go on to steal to pay for them.

I am though absolutely in agreement that both alcohol and nicotine (both of which I enjoy), are well known health hazards, but illegal use of cannabis has far worse side effects for the economy than tobacco or alcohol. Health wise, policing and taxation wise.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Whether he is, or was a regular partaker of cannabis or not is irrelevant to my argument. What I am saying is that as a well liked (by impressionable young people) celebrity appearing on TV smoking cannabis is irresponsible, given its well known side effects, and in so far as those that cannot afford it or the more expensive stronger drugs they may move on to, are forced to go on to steal to pay for them.

I am though absolutely in agreement that both alcohol and nicotine (both of which I enjoy), are well known health hazards, but illegal use of cannabis has far worse side effects for the economy than tobacco or alcohol. Health wise, policing and taxation wise.

The general consensus is that the complete opposite is true. Alcohol and tobacco give far worse outcomes than any class A or B drug, by a long way. That’s really the cornerstone of the legalise ‘weed’ and drugs in general movement. It’s also actually backed up by evidence rather than just opinion too.

 

[Roar87]

Whether he is, or was a regular partaker of cannabis or not is irrelevant to my argument. What I am saying is that as a well liked (by impressionable young people) celebrity appearing on TV smoking cannabis is irresponsible, given its well known side effects, and in so far as those that cannot afford it or the more expensive stronger drugs they may move on to, are forced to go on to steal to pay for them.

I am though absolutely in agreement that both alcohol and nicotine (both of which I enjoy), are well known health hazards, but illegal use of cannabis has far worse side effects for the economy than tobacco or alcohol. Health wise, policing and taxation wise.

It isn't illegal in California, it isn't worse for your health than alcohol or smoking, the US has generated millions of dollars in tax revenue from legalising it, Policing it and jailing people for it costs tens of millions. I'm surprised people still exist who think it should be illegal.

He's a typical tech bro type, he may have a vision but he's pretty clueless about things outside his speciality and completely unwilling to listen to the people that do know things when they disagree with his great ideas.

I admire his push for Space X, but I'm also very aware that they Silicone Valley idea of "push the boundaries, break things" is probably not a great one if it's unchecked in many fields, especially when you're talking about putting people in a vehicle that rides on a barely controlled explosion where anything going wrong tends to have nasty consequences.

I'm fairly horrified by some of the design decision with the Tesla, things like rear door manual handles that are anything but easy to get to and use in the event of an accident or a situation that results in the power cutting out so the lovely modern design asthetically pleasing push button door releases don't work (IIRC the rear door release is hidden away and hard to reach).
Safety features such as emergency releases for doors should always be both fairly obvious, and easy to reach even in (or especially in) less than ideal conditions. I can understand from a making the car pretty and "modern looking" point of view while do it, but that should never trump ease of use in an emergency.

IIRC in the cave diver incident the diver had been having trouble getting even local politicians and military to understand what the difficulties and dangers were, Musk came in with his great sounding but completely unworkable idea and when he was told no, he apparently turned up and tried to put pressure on the local people go with his idea rather than the one that the experts who knew the real conditions in cave diving were saying.
I can quite imagine even the most patient person getting a little annoyed if they're exhausted from trying to do something that is extremely dangerous and offering their advice and expertise earned over years/decades and some "genius" who has likely never done any diving other than a little recreational/basic diving (if that) comes in and starts pushing for something you know won't work.

Musk's sub reminds me of a story I heard about one of the big tech universities in the US, where for several years they'd been highlighting a wonderful, world changing idea for maximising farm yields and allowing things to be grown indoors with this really advanced high tech mini hydroponics unit where everything was controlled perfectly, and they'd demo it proudly with it's crop of lovely looking veg to would be investors and press who would normally go away and say "wow this is great, lets get some more money".
That is until a reporter who had a background in farming (and who had transitioned into tech) turns up, and recognises it as basically the same thing that many agricultural colleges had been using to teach students for decades, and when he started to look into it he found out that it didn't even work, whenever investors etc were coming in someone would be sent out to the local farmers market to buy the best looking produce possible, bring it back to the lab, clean off all the soil and put the lettuce etc into this miracle machine.
Or the wonderfully smart people who keep coming up with ideas for ways in which they could reduce congestion by creating a system that allows many people to easily share vehicles, or as the rest of the world calls them, busses.

When he gets a statue for landing the first human on Mars you can come back and read this post

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Oh, apparently it was just an off the cuff remark. We're all good then.

 

[StriderX]

When he gets a statue for landing the first human on Mars you can come back and read this post

Will that statue be of him sending a person to die, in our corporate overlords we trust.

 

[Mr Jack]

It's always about the money. I'm in two minds about the divers intentions. For one thing, good on him for showing that no matter how rich you are, you can't just make humiliating claims like he did. But on the other hand if he's doing it to make a quick buck, then all good intentions goes out the window. Hence i said i wonder if he's announced that he'll be donating all proceeds to a charity. As i suspect it'll likely be quite a sizeable sum.

This idea that libel damages need to be given to charity or some muck to be ethical needs to go die in a fire. Libel damages are paid to the victim of the libel in order to recompense them for the harm caused by the defamation. The diver is perfectly entitled to take the money and spend it on loose cars and fast women if that's what floats his boat.

 

[Mr Jack]

The whole submarine idea was impractical from the start which he should have learned from a 5 minute conversation with anyone with real cave diving experience.

But Elon was talking to people who were involved and he considered experts, and the whole submarine thing was a second string anyway. He actually first turn up with the boring company since they are actually world experts in boring holes and the idea being floated was that a tunnel could be dug down to the boys. That wasn't possible so he talked to some engineers about other ideas and then talked to some of the people involved about the minisub. Elon's involvement, up to the point where he started slinging playground insults and then doubling down on them, was reasonable and attempted to be helpful. I think is why he got so butthurt over people mocking him in the first place.

 

[Roar87]

Will that statue be of him sending a person to die, in our corporate overlords we trust.

I hope President Trump presents Elon with his medal at his statues opening ceremony, while you're sat at home calling them "morally corrupt" lol

 

[FishFluff]

When he gets a statue for landing the first human on Mars you can come back and read this post

All Musk is doing is financing it. It’s the engineers and scientists who deserve statues. I very much admire SpaceX’s achievements, but that doesn’t prevent me thinking that Musk is a monumental bell end whose main talent is generating hype.

 

[Roar87]

All Musk is doing is financing it. It’s the engineers and scientists who deserve statues. I very much admire SpaceX’s achievements, but that doesn’t prevent me thinking that Musk is a monumental bell end whose main talent is generating hype.

Musk is involved in day to day running of all his companies, he works with the engineers, he considers himself an engineer, he helped design the Gigafactory and works on improving the efficiency of the factory. He said on the JRE podcast most of the things he does day to day is engineering based. He's highly drive, highly intelligent, highly successful; you've never met him and you consider him a bell end, oh I wonder why

 

[neckbeardthethird]

Musk is involved in day to day running of all his companies, he works with the engineers, he considers himself an engineer, he helped design the Gigafactory and works on improving the efficiency of the factory. He said on the JRE podcast most of the things he does day to day is engineering based. He's highly drive, highly intelligent, highly successful; you've never met him and you consider him a bell end, oh I wonder why

I think its fair play to call someone a bell end when they go around calling people paedo's on twitter.

It's pretty high level bellendry would you not agree ?

 

[FishFluff]

Musk is involved in day to day running of all his companies, he works with the engineers, he considers himself an engineer, he helped design the Gigafactory and works on improving the efficiency of the factory. He said on the JRE podcast most of the things he does day to day is engineering based. He's highly drive, highly intelligent, highly successful; you've never met him and you consider him a bell end, oh I wonder why

He says a lot of things, if you choose to believe them then that's up to you.

To be honest it's a little weird that you feel the need to so vigorously defend an internet celebrity you don't even know and get so triggered by anyone criticising your man-crush.

 

[Roar87]

I think its fair play to call someone a bell end when they go around calling people paedo's on twitter.

It's a pretty high level bellendry would you not agree ?

Elon was the one who was attacked first for taking a group of engineers who specialise in digging holes to see if they could help some kids trapped underground, what a crazy notion that is

 

[Mr Jack]

Musk is involved in day to day running of all his companies, he works with the engineers, he considers himself an engineer, he helped design the Gigafactory and works on improving the efficiency of the factory. He said on the JRE podcast most of the things he does day to day is engineering based. He's highly drive, highly intelligent, highly successful; you've never met him and you consider him a bell end, oh I wonder why

I find it kind of sad that people are so desperate to cast Musk as either a tech-hero or a *******. In real life people are more complicated than that, and have both virtues and flaws. Musk made his money from a series of .com style businesses, most noteable PayPal, but unlike others that did so, he's taken his money and tried to make amazing things with it. I think that's admirable. He's pushed electric car development forward five years or more, and the same in solar and storage battery technology, and then aimed for the stars with SpaceX. His companies do not have the reputation for exploitation, tax avoidance, and just plain evil of many of his peers. Again, I'm all for that.

But it's hard to argue that calling a rescue diver a pedo is anything other than a ******* move, and it's hardly that out of character. He seems thin skinned, with a tendency to childishly lash out when he's upset, and generally comes off as someone who has never really learned the responsibility that goes with his new role on the world stage.

I think he's both a tech-hero and a bell end; and I think people who try to cast him as one or the other are failing to really understand him.

 

[Chris Wilson]

The general consensus is that the complete opposite is true. Alcohol and tobacco give far worse outcomes than any class A or B drug, by a long way. That’s really the cornerstone of the legalise ‘weed’ and drugs in general movement. It’s also actually backed up by evidence rather than just opinion too.

I was unfortunate enough as to have to go in to Manchester city centre the other day and decided to take a walk across Picaddilly Gardens to see how it had changed from when I lived in the suburbs. The dregs of society literally draped around would suggest that whatever they were taking was indeed far worse than alcohol or tobacco. Are you seriously saying my drinking 4 pints in a night is as bad as me taking spice or heroin?!

 

[neckbeardthethird]

Elon was the one who was attacked first for taking a group of engineers who specialise in digging holes to see if they could help some kids trapped underground, what a crazy notion that is

So a diver criticised his idea and attempts to help (something lots of other people also did) and therefore it's fair game to call someone a nonce to an audience of millions. Ok

 

[FishFluff]

I think he's both a tech-hero and a bell end; and I think people who try to cast him as one or the other are failing to really understand him.

For the record, I agree and I genuinely think he wants to help people. He could have taken the PayPal cash and never worked again in his life. People would take him a lot more seriously though if he didn't make such ridiculous promises when it comes to his product schedules and if he didn't go around calling people peados

 

[Roar87]

So a diver criticised his idea and attempts to help (something lots of other people also did) and therefore it's fair game to call someone a nonce to an audience of millions. Ok

He didn't just criticise his idea, everyone's free to do that, he did it publicly in an attempt to make him look stupid. Imagine trying to help save kids with your team of expert engineers and being publicly shamed for it, do you think Elon would've insulted him if he sat down with him and said "Thanks for coming mate, but we think the submarine idea might not work though because of X reasons"? Of course not. Now he's claiming to be upset because he got called a mean name, maybe just don't be ******** next time

For the record, I agree and I genuinely think he wants to help people. He could have taken the PayPal cash and never worked again in his life. People would take him a lot more seriously though if he didn't make such ridiculous promises when it comes to his product schedules and if he didn't go around calling people peados

Shocker as man attempting to do spectacular things for the first time also sets highly ambitious deadlines

 

[Semple]

Libel damages are paid to the victim of the libel in order to recompense them for the harm caused by the defamation.

Exactly, i can't find anything that mentions the damages the diver incurred as a result of this defamation.

I do wonder whether a libel case will rest on this point entirely. I.e. there have been plenty of high profile libel cases where Person A sues Person B because of proven loss of revenue due to the defamation, or loss of opportunity etc etc.

Frankly this is nothing more than playground name calling from two grown adults who should know better.

And that's why in my opinion the diver is a **** and is clearly just after the money.