I've not twisted words. You said the bottom 6 hold all the cards when in fact they're the ones that need to convince somebody to join them, not the other 14. The other 14 hold the cards. As things stand, if the reports are accurate, a vote would be won by the other 14 clubs. And those other 14 clubs are likely to put pressure on the bottom 3 to join them too.
Football and the Coronavirus
- Thread starter Robbo
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This is reportedly off the table as government/police won't provide a safety certificate for all stadiums. By limiting the number of stadiums used, they're also limiting the number of non playing staff needed to put games on.
Soldato
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In your own words “the top 6 will now push for relegations to go ahead if the season isn't finished - the idea being that it will force the hand of the current bottom 3 into agreeing to the neutral venue idea.” that’s not 14 other clubs, if the top 6 push this idea they need 8 other clubs to join them, where as the bottom 6 just need 1 other club to see that idea off.
Talk about twisting words?
It is reported that the top 6 want to keep relegations if the League isn't finished. That is a completely different vote to the one that may happen regarding resuming the season. That vote, reportedly at least, already has 14 clubs in favour of.
So it's clear and you don't misunderstand or twist things. There's two things that have been reported:
- Vote on resuming the season in neutral stadiums - this reportedly has the backing of 14 clubs.
- If the season isn't finished it is being reported that the top 6 will vote as a block to keep relegations.
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6 votes isn’t enough to block anything, the top 6 don’t hold anymore voting rights than other clubs, there needs to be 14 votes to pass anything or 7 teams to vote against to stop it from passing, you already have the bottom 6 banding together and it won’t be that hard for them to get another voteTalk about twisting words?
It is reported that the top 6 want to keep relegations if the League isn't finished. That is a completely different vote to the one that may happen regarding resuming the season. That vote, reportedly at least, already has 14 clubs in favour of.
So it's clear and you don't misunderstand or twist things. There's two things that have been reported:
- Vote on resuming the season in neutral stadiums - this reportedly has the backing of 14 clubs.
- If the season isn't finished it is being reported that the top 6 will vote as a block to keep relegations.
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LOL. Lets try one more time. It's a separate issue and separate vote to any potential vote on project restart.
And while 6 votes isn't enough (for the 2nd, separate issue) the top sides have a way of getting other clubs to support them. Afterall they managed to persuade at least 8 other clubs to agree to giving them a bigger slice of TV money 18 months ago. And what reason would all but the 3 relegated clubs have to block relegation if the season is cut short? If the season is finished then 17th place upwards are safe - it won't benefit anybody to keep Norwich, Villa and Bournemouth up, in fact it will likely cost everybody with a 22 team PL more likely.
Don't be surprised if you start hearing talk of a European Super League in the coming months. Stories about this usually get leaked any time the top sides are pushing through an idea of theirs.
edit: fwiw, whether Project Restart happens will depends on the public reaction to the idea imo. Steve Parish hinted at it in his article and it's why the top 6 are trying to scare the bottom 3. They already have enough votes to force the idea through if they wanted to but they want to limit the number of dissenting voices. They don't want execs from those that vote against the idea to come out in the press raising concerns about the NHS and player safety (despite being happy to play if there was no relegation) because they know that will stir up a backlash from the public.
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I can't see a particularly likely route to a 'no relegations' scenario.
If the proposed vote for 'restart in neutral venues, relegation still on the table' is defeated by the lower league teams convincing a 7th person to join them, you then look at what would the next vote be?
If it's a vote to just end the season now, then suddenly only 3 teams have any interest in scrapping relegation, everyone else would rather keep their own position. The bottom three will no doubt be considering this possibility in their current political maneuvering as it would completely kill off any opportunity to escape.
If it's to restart with no relegations, then you've the top 6 immediately likely to oppose it and they just need one other club to decide relegations are a good thing to get that vote to fail.
Once you're at that point, you've hit a bit of a stalemate without a radical new idea on the table.
If the proposed vote for 'restart in neutral venues, relegation still on the table' is defeated by the lower league teams convincing a 7th person to join them, you then look at what would the next vote be?
If it's a vote to just end the season now, then suddenly only 3 teams have any interest in scrapping relegation, everyone else would rather keep their own position. The bottom three will no doubt be considering this possibility in their current political maneuvering as it would completely kill off any opportunity to escape.
If it's to restart with no relegations, then you've the top 6 immediately likely to oppose it and they just need one other club to decide relegations are a good thing to get that vote to fail.
Once you're at that point, you've hit a bit of a stalemate without a radical new idea on the table.
La Liga returning to training next week and Tebas (head of La Liga) quoted as saying he hopes for matches to resume next month.
I believe Wolves have announced that their players will be returning to individual training from next week and that Chelsea have recalled all their players that were abroad.
edit: The Times are reporting that Sky and BT are very much against relegation being scrapped and that if it is, it could invalidate the League's contract with the broadcasters.
The article also talks about plans to televise all of the remaining games with some likely to be made available for free on Sky and BT's youtube channels. It also mentions the possibility of Amazon broadcasting some games - I would assume that they would need to pay for these games, which could be a way the League offsets lost matchday revenue and or helps out the EFL.
I believe Wolves have announced that their players will be returning to individual training from next week and that Chelsea have recalled all their players that were abroad.
edit: The Times are reporting that Sky and BT are very much against relegation being scrapped and that if it is, it could invalidate the League's contract with the broadcasters.
The article also talks about plans to televise all of the remaining games with some likely to be made available for free on Sky and BT's youtube channels. It also mentions the possibility of Amazon broadcasting some games - I would assume that they would need to pay for these games, which could be a way the League offsets lost matchday revenue and or helps out the EFL.
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Soldato
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Seems there was more opposed to the idea of neutral grounds than everyone thought, I don’t blame them TBHTalk about twisting words?
It is reported that the top 6 want to keep relegations if the League isn't finished. That is a completely different vote to the one that may happen regarding resuming the season. That vote, reportedly at least, already has 14 clubs in favour of.
So it's clear and you don't misunderstand or twist things. There's two things that have been reported:
- Vote on resuming the season in neutral stadiums - this reportedly has the backing of 14 clubs.
- If the season isn't finished it is being reported that the top 6 will vote as a block to keep relegations.
"As many as 8 clubs do not agree with the neutral ground idea." "They do happen to be the ones who are in relegation difficulties."
"It only needs 7 clubs to oppose it, in a vote, and it won't go through."
@MartynZiegler
with an update on neutral grounds in the #PL.
https://twitter.com/talkSPORT/status/1257355533369192450
We'll find out on Friday (or next monday) just how many are against it. If the government say it's safe to resume then I expect, one way or another, it will be forced through. It's very rare that the big 6 don't get what the want.
The Times article I mentioned about regarding broadcasters being against relegation being scappred was from Martyn Ziegler too.
The Times article I mentioned about regarding broadcasters being against relegation being scappred was from Martyn Ziegler too.
Soldato
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Mate I’m not trying to be argumentative, the way I see it those in the bottom 3 and those all the way up to Everton are probably looking at this as a free pass so to speak with no worry of relegation, as nobody knows how teams are going to react after such a long lay off currently 9 weeks and likely to be 13-15 weeks(players are only normally off for about 10). Teams at the bottom of the table may also see this as one of the few times that they get one over the top 6 so to speak.
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The point is it's not a free pass. If you're a club like Everton, the risk of losing £50m odd in tv money is far greater than the risk of being relegated. The risk of being relegated for Everton, Newcastle and Southampton isn't big enough for them to give up £50m odd in TV money.
And there's no "getting one over the big 6". The big 6 get their way because the rest know that they have the power to switch the money off to the League. As I said earlier, at least 8 other sides voted to give more of the League's TV money to the top sides. Your Liverpool's and Utd's hold a giant 'European Super League' axe over the heads of the rest of the clubs and the single biggest reason why this Super League hasn't happened yet (or a reformed, closed shop CL) is because the big PL sides haven't signed up to it. The day the likes of Liverpool and Utd pack their bags and join up with Juve, Real etc, the PL becomes the Championship and tv contracts and club values drop through the floor.
If the government give the green light for football to resume (and the season be completed by mid August, in line with UEFA's deadlines) and there's no public backlash against it returning, one way or another it will resume.
edit: just to go into a bit more detail over the power the big clubs hold. Some years back Liverpool's old CEO said that the big sides should get a bigger slice of overseas tv money as nobody in Thailand are tuning in to watch the smaller clubs. There was a big outcry about how terrible this idea was and how the other sides would block it. 18-24 months ago, when the current TV contracts were being finalised, a news story leaked that the big 6 were in talks with somebody regarding a European Super League. A shortwhile later the League voted to give the top sides more money.
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I’m not saying that the league won’t resume, what I’m saying is if there are 8 clubs that don’t want the chance of relegation due to playing at neutral grounds (which is seems there are) they can and possibly will say “yes will finish the season at neutral grounds as long as there is no relegation this season, if you won’t do that then we won’t play at neutral grounds” and there is nothing the so-called big 6 can do.
On the super league thing let them go it will wall flat on its face TBH
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And this is the politics that we're seeing get played out. And it's not just the big 6. The majority, whether that be 12 or 14 clubs depending on what reports you read, are in favour of the current plan of resuming at neutral grounds.
Blocking plans to resume at neutral venues will potentially stop the League resuming at all (as above, Sky and BT are against relegation being scrapped and it will reportedly void the tv contracts). What then happens? It's already being reported that the top sides are going to push for relegation to be kept on the table if the season ends early and they'll have 6-8 clubs already alongside them, ****ed off at the others and suddenly Everton, Newcastle, Southampton (if they are blocking it now), Brighton, Watford and West Ham no longer have anything to lose or any reason to vote against the top sides. Suddenly Norwich, Villa and Bournemouth could find themselves relegated and out of pocket for not completing the season. Put yourself in these clubs positions now - do you stick to your guns and insist on attempting to block the restart with neutral venues and risk getting relegated without a ball being kicked or do you back down and play out the season, hoping you can beat the drop?
Maybe a compromise will be reached some how but if I were to bet, right now I'd say the League will resume with relegation still live. This assumes that the government give the greenlight of course.
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Thing is its all well and good the premier league restarting, but can you really see the rest of the leagues also starting up again? Because I can’t and there’s really no point in having this discussion if they don’t. I understand why you want to get it going again your being selfish(no offence intended) because you want Liverpool to win the league properly and not handed it by default.
League 1 and 2? Certainly not, the Championship? Maybe. And you're missing the point about the PL starting up. Read Steve Parish's article and see how much the PL pays the EFL. The survival of the EFL, at least a large number of clubs, depends on the PL finishing.
And you might think I'm being selfish but you'd be totally wrong. Liverpool have won the title - Liverpool supporters have, to a degree, had their moment celebrating the title. Go back and look at the reaction after we beat Utd at Anfield for example. All my posts are looking at the reality of the situation. A lot of people seem to think that the PL can just end and there will be no consequences. We know already that not finishing the season could cost the League over £1bn in lost TV, matchday and commercial revenue. That will potentially cripple PL sides and if the League then don't or can't pay payments to the lower Leagues, who already face going bust due to losing their matchday and tv money, then they're ****ed too. You have to remember that we're likely facing most of 'next season' (whenever that might be) behind closed doors too. That's another huge financial blackhole that needs filling.
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Right so if the championship doesn’t restart which I don’t think it will, who do you promote if you complete the premier league and relegate 3 teams?
Soldato
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But you have relegated 3 teams so who is the 3rd?Leeds and WBA