10GB vram enough for the 3080? Discuss..

[Skynet5]

Just catching up..new cards looks amazing. I feel for owners of the 2080ti.

But why 10GB of ram. What a crock of meh. My 1080ti has more!

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Do you have a point you are trying to make? Because if you are trying to counter my argument, it isn't obvious at all...

That ignoring the consoles who drive AAA game development is silly.

 

[james.miller]

That ignoring the consoles who drive AAA game development is silly.

I hope he's not trying to say that, because nobody's doing that. This is about comparing a discrete gpu with X amount of vram to a console with Y amount of system ram. It's pointless, especially, when the series X goes and does something like this:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1242466747896102913

 

[McPhee]

Series X effectively has 10GB of VRAM. Except it isn't exclusively VRAM. It's "GPU optimal memory". It can be used for other things. The remaining 6GB is slower, and not intended for use by the GPU. Of the slower memory, 3.5GB is for games, and 2.5GB is for the system.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

I hope he's not trying to say that, because nobody's doing that. This is about comparing a discrete gpu with X amount of vram to a console with Y amount of system ram. It's pointless, especially, when the series X goes and does something like this
snip..

Stop comparing VRAM to console RAM guys, seriously. It's such a daft argument. Do you know how much memory these next generation game engines are going to need? no? well you have no idea how much of that system ram will be available to the gpu, then.

'yeah yeah but the ps5 has 16gb'...irrelevant.

*insert the most monotone voice you can think of*
Next gen engines will be built around the consoles and their limitations. AAA games will be built around the consoles and their limitations. If we are lucky we might get better textures when games come over to PC. Hence they are relevant to the discussion.

Edit: side note, it is funny to watch PC gamers suddenly acting like paying more for parity with consoles as a good thing.

 

[james.miller]

Ffs.

Not directly comparing vram to system ram does not mean anybody is ignoring the consoles. Its the complete opposite.

I said this was simple. Evidently it's not....

Edit: side note, it is funny to watch PC gamers suddenly acting like paying more for parity with consoles as a good thing.

Not me doing that. At all.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

*insert the most monotone voice you can think of*
Next gen engines will be built around the consoles and their limitations. AAA games will be built around the consoles and their limitations. If we are lucky we might get better textures when games come over to PC. Hence they are relevant to the discussion.

Edit: side note, it is funny to watch PC gamers suddenly acting like paying more for parity with consoles as a good thing.

 

[FloatingPoint]

If your spending that much to play games and brag about creating inflation, damn right it's enough (right now). If you're actually making stuff?

 

[Joxeon]

But why 10GB of ram. What a crock of meh. My 1080ti has more!

Because nvidia want you to upgrade in 2 years not 4.

 

[Poneros]

Just catching up..new cards looks amazing. I feel for owners of the 2080ti.

But why 10GB of ram. What a crock of meh. My 1080ti has more!

Amount is tied to two things: bus width & memory chip capacity. For GDDR6X they can only do 1 GB atm. Then we have bus width, which for a 3080 really means 320 at a minimum (which is what they chose).

Now, what they could still do is make it like the 3090 and have a clamshell design, so it would have memory on both front and back. That increases costs considerably because now you need to account for the extra cost of the PCB, of the memory, of supply constraints etc.

Basically, they didn't want to make the 3080 $900-$1000 from the get go. But ofc such a variant is probably on its way regardless - it's just that it's gonna be out a few months after the 10 GB launches.

 

[opethdisciple]

Thanks for fleshing that out, sentence by sentence nearly.
But I think he's gone from the thread at this point.
Or
He still believes that next gen console games requiring more then 10gb of vram is bad coding/memory leak. As it's only limited to just 10GB. Then he will link that post from reddit again.

Nope. I never said more ram wasn't a nice insurance. More/faster is always better.

I just believe that 10GB will be OK, because Nvidia will have had discussions with game devs, will know how much vram the consoles have etc....

And as has been pointed out now the consoles have fast and slow ram. So not all 16GB is available to it at the same speed. Plus you need system memory to run the box it self so I think 10GB will be OK.

Sure there might be high res texture packs but still do you really see Nvidia letting their 'flag ship' GPU look so bad against the competition due to skimping on the vram?

But still even then we have RTX IO which will change things up.

I think people are still thinking about this in traditional terms.

The next gen sounds like it is really changing a lot of the rules.

 

[Doppleganger]

I've read some great arguments about the pros and cons of 10gb ram vs next gen consoles. I've also read some pointless drivel from several posters who seem to have an agenda.

It's quite clear to me. If you're not convinced about the longevity of 10gb ram then don't buy the f.. card. Simples.

 

[opethdisciple]

I hope he's not trying to say that, because nobody's doing that. This is about comparing a discrete gpu with X amount of vram to a console with Y amount of system ram. It's pointless, especially, when the series X goes and does something like this:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1242466747896102913

As you can see here, he says "Let’s think of a GDDR6 chip as a glass with a 56GB/s straw. XSX has 10 glasses, games spread each piece of data between the chips just like pouring liquid across 10 glasses. When data is needed, the game drinks data from 10 straws at the same time, reading the data at 560GB/s."

Well RTX IO will make that as needed thing much faster on the PC due to RTX IO and DirectStorage.

Plus the XSX is using GDDR6 the 3080 is GDDR6X so even faster memory.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

We have the same argument every time nvidia skimps on memory. And our fear are always proven right down the road.

VRAM shouldn't even be a consideration for any graphics card north of £400 notes. But evidently shareholders matter more than customers.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Nope. I never said more ram wasn't a nice insurance. More/faster is always better.

I just believe that 10GB will be OK, because Nvidia will have had discussions with game devs, will know how much vram the consoles have etc....

And as has been pointed out now the consoles have fast and slow ram. So not all 16GB is available to it at the same speed. Plus you need system memory to run the box it self so I think 10GB will be OK.

Sure there might be high res texture packs but still do you really see Nvidia letting their 'flag ship' GPU look so bad against the competition due to skimping on the vram?

But still even then we have RTX IO which will change things up.

I think people are still thinking about this in traditional terms.

The next gen sounds like it is really changing a lot of the rules.

Sigh...
https://youtu.be/UPw-3e_pzqU



This is from xbox series x right now. We won't talk about PS5. But when you look at the slide what does it tell you?
1. There is 16GB of GDDR6. I emphasize GDDR6 because just saying 16GB sort of implys DDR4. As it's most used with DDR4.
2. 10GB of GDDR6 provides 560GB/s
.....6GB of GDDR6 provides 336GB/s
Therefore the 6GB of GDDR6 is slower, not slow. However, at 336GB/s it's no slouch. It's moving data at next gen speeds...
3. Out of the 6GB of GDDR6 only 2.5 is reserved for for the system. A system that's not win10 mind you.
.....The remaining 3.5GB can be and will be used for games. Therefore, it's not 10GB, it's 13.5GB if you want to be technical. And, depending on engine could dip into system memory if need raising 13.5GB to 14-15GB. This is do to obvious updates to the xbox which will reduce memory footprint. As has been the case in prior update releases.

So that's the techincal aspect of it. So this brings us back to you posting, incorrectly, that 10GB is enough. When you don't factor in win10 bloat that also consumes vram. Or just win10 bloat in general needed do to "full screen optimization" and the like. But needless to say, 10GB, at the most rudimentary aspect is simply not enough for these next gen console games. That will be more open world, use ray tracing and stream textures/assets in and out of the game on the fly. Which is why the ratchet/clank demo was so impressive. Which is also why the UE 5 tech demo was impressive, etc....etc....

 

[opethdisciple]

Sigh...
https://youtu.be/UPw-3e_pzqU



This is from xbox series x right now. We won't talk about PS5. But when you look at the slide what does it tell you?
1. There is 16GB of GDDR6. I emphasize GDDR6 because just saying 16GB sort of implys DDR4. As it's most used with DDR4.
2. 10GB of GDDR6 provides 560GB/s
.....6GB of GDDR6 provides 336GB/s
Therefore the 6GB of GDDR6 is slower, not slow. However, at 336GB/s it's no slouch. It's moving data at next gen speeds...
3. Out of the 6GB of GDDR6 only 2.5 is reserved for for the system. A system that's not win10 mind you.
.....The remaining 3.5GB can be and will be used for games. Therefore, it's not 10GB, it's 13.5GB if you want to be technical. And, depending on engine could dip into system memory if need raising 13.5GB to 14-15GB. This is do to obvious updates to the xbox which will reduce memory footprint. As has been the case in prior update releases.

So that's the techincal aspect of it. So this brings us back to you posting, incorrectly, that 10GB is enough. When you don't factor in win10 bloat that also consumes vram. Or just win10 bloat in general needed do to "full screen optimization" and the like. But needless to say, 10GB, at the most rudimentary aspect is simply not enough for these next gen console games. That will be more open world, use ray tracing and stream textures/assets in and out of the game on the fly. Which is why the ratchet/clank demo was so impressive. Which is also why the UE 5 tech demo was impressive, etc....etc....

Sure. But developers bringing their games to PC, how do you think their games will run on PC if the majority of gamers has 8GB to 10GB at the top end and their games need 12-14GB of vram?

People will be screaming that they are not optimised for pc. They have to make it fit in an envelop that works for PC. I dont think consoles vs PC is apples to apples here as they are different architectures.

Lets take Cyberpunk as an example. It's a game works title, taps in to the full RTX suite. I presume they have collaborated with Nvidia on access to the next gen cards for test and optimisations etc. Do you really think CDProject Red will allow the game to push over 10GB on PC?

I doubt it.

 

[LeMson]

I want better than console performance not matching it, I want to run higher res, higher hz, crank the settings. Therefore I need more grunt and capacity than the consoles ergo 10gb won't be enough.

 

[JohnG7]

/me drops pants and poos on consoles.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Sure. But developers bringing their games to PC, how do you think their games will run on PC if the majority of gamers has 8GB with 10GB at the top end and their games need 12-14GB of ram?

People will be screaming that they are not optimised for pc. They have to make it fit in an envelop that works for PC. I dont think consoles vs PC is apples to apples here as they are different architectures.

Who are console developers making games for nvidia or amd hardware? Huh?

When you download State of Decay, the oddities begin immediately. Instead of downloading from the Microsoft Store server, serverdl.microsoft.com, where all content comes from including PlayAnywhere titles, the game downloads from assets1.xboxlive.com.

What it looks like Microsoft is doing, instead of porting each Xbox feature back to the PC one by one, they are simply dumping the entire Xbox one installation/servicing plumbing and making it the primary installation for Windows.

When you extract the installer from the Store after downloading, you will discover that it is using the .xvc file format. While that may not sound familiar, Microsoft introduced this format around 2013 specifically for Xbox One games. Further, you can now install this file format using PowerShell in 19H1; I never thought I would write the words “PowerShell can now install Xbox One games” but here we are.

For a few months, I had been hearing that Microsoft was working to bring Xbox and the Microsoft store experience closer together. This appears to be part of the GameCore strategy that is designed to make it significantly easier to bring Xbox games to the PC. Granted, the challenges today of building a PC and Xbox game using the same assets is significantly easier than the last generation but Microsoft wants to make it a streamlined process for maximum value for developers to support both platforms.

After all, as consoles have evolved, they are more like PCs than stand-alone unique pieces of hardware. By doing this, it makes it easier for developers to build one game for both PC and Xbox which is a huge win for Microsoft on both the console and PC gaming fronts.

https://www.thurrott.com/games/200140/microsofts-evolving-gaming-strategy-takes-a-giant-step-forward

It's all part of MS GameCore Strategy. What do you think 'Hags' is for and why it's still in limbo.

They've been incredibly quite on it as of now as that article is pretty old. However, the very thing you fear the most is exactly how MS is bring consoles ports to PC.
Straight from PowerShell with a icon on your desktop!!! Good luck trying to find the game file as it's auto hidden. But that's another story.

So again, who benefits the most from this ecosystem? It sure isn't 3070 with 8gb of vram, that's for sure.

 

[TNA]

I want better than console performance not matching it, I want to run higher res, higher hz, crank the settings. Therefore I need more grunt and capacity than the consoles ergo 10gb won't be enough.

Jensen, Gibbo and I recommend you the ASUS 3090