10GB vram enough for the 3080? Discuss..

Dave2150 · 3 Sep 2020 at 18:50

CuriousTomCat said:
Obviously next gen games will be designed with 10gb vram in mind since that's the max most will have. So where is the problem?

If 20gb vram was popular, game developers would aim for that.

If 6gb vram was more popular, game developers would aim for that.

Developers aren't stupid, they will never design a game that people can't play. They want sales.

OMG!!!

Your ignoring resolution. At 4k we already need more than 10GB in current games.... Newer games designed for the new consoles, and then ported to PC, will use more VRAM.

1080P still fine with 10GB of course, though this is for very old PC's these days.

Oblivion · 3 Sep 2020 at 18:51

I breach 10GB playing COD MW on the G9 which is a screen just under 4k resolution.

CuriousTomCat · 3 Sep 2020 at 18:57

Dave2150 said:
Your ignoring resolution. At 4k we already need more than 10GB in current games.... Newer games designed for the new consoles, and then ported to PC, will use more VRAM.

1080P still fine with 10GB of course, though this is for very old PC's these days.

Yeah, because the high end had 11Gb in 2017 so it looked like that was where the industry was heading.

It takes years to build a game. Developers have to forcast where the industry will be in 3 or 4 years time when a game will be finished. Future games will have to start using less vram until the hardware catches up.

Some tech companies have to plan 5+ years in advance where they think the industry is heading when planning new products. The market is often a different place at the beginning of product development vs end of product development.

EastCoastHandle · 3 Sep 2020 at 18:59

CuriousTomCat said:
Obviously next gen games will be designed with 10gb vram in mind since that's the max most will have. So where is the problem?
OMG!!!

Ok, let me get you up to speed, sport.
Next gen consoles are using 16GB of GDDR6 as main memory. Not DDR4, Not DDR5. Consoles games will be using bandwidth far more then what we ever saw, EVER!!!:

Therefore, it's obvious that next gen CONSOLE PORTED games will be designed with 'up to' 16GB GDDR6 in mind since that's the max consoles have. So, now you see the problem.

opethdisciple · 3 Sep 2020 at 18:59

opethdisciple said:
The issue here is, we all assume we know what we are talking about and have been been part of the development process with Nvidia and partaking in the discussions between Nvidia / Microsoft and game devs. I assure you 99.999999999999999999% of us have not been privy to these discussions and do not know a scobie do about how this will work on the next gen games.

We are also probably thinking about this in terms of the old generation of games. The next gen games will be pulling in more data from nvme so perhaps this is why 10GB is OK for a high end gaming card for the next gen.

Remember this.... if games do start coming out needing more than 10GB of vram and the new AMD cards have 12-20GB on a card then sales will start going towards AMD and Nvidia would not be putting themselves in this position.

So I am fairly sure I trust them that 10GB will be enough.

No one commented on what I wrote here. I was thinking people would have jumped on it as it's contentious.

opethdisciple · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:01

EastCoastHandle said:
Ok, let me get you up to speed, sport.
Next gen consoles are using 16GB of GDDR6 as main memory. Not DDR4, Not DDR5. Consoles games will be using bandwidth far more then what we ever saw, EVER!!!:

Therefore, it's obvious that next gen CONSOLE PORTED games will be designed with 'up to' 16GB GDDR6 in mind since that's the max consoles have. So, now you see the problem.

Do you honestly think Nvidia would have released new cards up to 10 GB (excluding the 3090 as that is a halo card) if this was going to be a problem?

Have you read this?

Also that 16GB of ram is for both system and vram use so it's not a vram frame buffer.

Once the system allocation is done what's left can be used as vram. So suddenly 10GB on the new cards doesn't look out of ordinary.

otester · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:01

If BigNavi has 16GB as rumored then expect a 3080Ti to follow shortly to match or exceed it around $999.

chaparral · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:03

opethdisciple said:
Do you honestly think Nvidia would have released new cards up to 10 GB (excluding the 3090 as that is a halo card) if this was going to be a problem?

Yes

EastCoastHandle · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:04

opethdisciple said:
Do you honestly think Nvidia would have released new cards up to 10 GB (excluding the 3090 as that is a halo card) if this was going to be a problem?

Yes

There is no proof that Nvidia had knowledge of what consoles were doing. Which is why it's rumored that TI variants have more vram.

opethdisciple · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:05

Don't forget RTX IO.

Mark1989 · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:05

Dave2150 said:
Your ignoring resolution. At 4k we already need more than 10GB in current games.... Newer games designed for the new consoles, and then ported to PC, will use more VRAM.

1080P still fine with 10GB of course, though this is for very old PC's these days.

Lol wut? 1080p isn't for very old PC's, I'd love to know how you decided that.

VonScar · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:05

Yes, 8 and 10 Gig is so 2013. Now we have 16 gig consoles and to me it looks like NVIDIA is trying to cut costs and hold back while they wait for AMD to step up.

opethdisciple · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:06

EastCoastHandle said:
Yes

There is no proof that Nvidia had knowledge of what consoles were doing. Which is why it's rumored that TI variants have more vram.

Here they claim to have had discussions with game developers.

opethdisciple · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:06

Also a 3080 with more ram will be more than £650 so it's starting to get silly expensive.

EastCoastHandle · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:06

Mark1989 said:
Lol wut? 1080p isn't for very old PC's, I'd love to know how you decided that.

April 19, 2006, Tokyo, Japan - Pioneer Corporation today announced the world's first*1 50-inch 1920 X 1080 HD Plasma monitor employing new "HD P.U.R.E. *2 Black Panel", which creates a 1080p native resolution with more than 2 million pixels on a 50-inch screen.

opethdisciple said:
Here they claim to have had discussions with game developers.

Is it possible that you could understand that Nvidia has had no interaction, not proven anyway, with console developers regarding next gen PS5/XsX besides older games already released to PC?

Therefore, Nvidia didn't know that 8/10 wouldn't be enough until MS/Sony provided details in 2020 suggesting that it wouldn't be enough.

LoadsaMoney · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:09

opethdisciple said:
Don't forget RTX IO.

Be a couple of years that, only a developer preview coming sometime next year, as far as im aware.

Gux · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:11

pBay said:
I really hope someone does an in-depth video on this topic soon because the "is it enough/isn't it enough" debate is driving me nuts. I'm probably going to go for the 3080 anyway but it would be nice to finally confirm the truth.

Sure Horizon Zero Dawn pretty much reserves 9.5GB of VRAM on my 1080ti @ 3440 x 1440, but my gpu core is maxed out at 100% anyway. Not convinced another 2/3GB of VRAM would make much of a difference.

That's exactly the reason why people are concerned. Horizon is a game designed on PS4 which had 5.5gb RAM budget. From that budget, even less was available as VRAM. Let's assume that developers had around 4gb VRAM budget in the PS4.

Same game on PC while using higher resolution & settings, you're already using 9.5gb.

Some of 9.5gb you're using is used as cache and with the improvements in I/O, cache allocation can be reduced in the next-gen games. But still, I think 10gb is essentially a bare minimum for 4k moving forward. 3070 8gb is even worse off with less VRAM and slower memory...

PS5 has 13.5gb usable RAM available. I won't be surprised if most PS5 games will be designed for 1440p & will be using around 10gb of VRAM. I may be completely wrong but I think there is no way that these cards won't hit VRAM limit problems in 2 years playing at 4k at PC high/max settings.

CuriousTomCat · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:11

EastCoastHandle said:
Ok, let me get you up to speed, sport.
Next gen consoles are using 16GB of GDDR6 as main memory. Not DDR4, Not DDR5. Consoles games will be using bandwidth far more then what we ever saw, EVER!!!:

Therefore, it's obvious that next gen CONSOLE PORTED games will be designed with 'up to' 16GB GDDR6 in mind since that's the max consoles have. So, now you see the problem.

Let me get you up to speed with consoles in 2013, sport.

PS4 8Gb GDDR5 VRAM in 2013
GTX 780 Ti 3Gb GDDR5 VRAM in 2013

High end graphics cards had less than half the vram as the consoles back then as well but the world didn't end.

The Old School Gamer · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:12

opethdisciple said:
Also a 3080 with more ram will be more than £650 so it's starting to get silly expensive.

Don't care, not buying a 8Gb or 10Gb card in 2020/21 to replace my 11Gb 1080ti (it's just not going to happen).

otester said:
If BigNavi has 16GB as rumored then expect a 3080Ti to follow shortly to match or exceed it around $999.

Counting on it.

Mark1989 · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:16

EastCoastHandle said:
Is it possible that you could understand that Nvidia has had no interaction, not proven anyway, with console developers regarding next gen PS5/XsX besides older games already released to PC?

Therefore, Nvidia didn't know that 8/10 wouldn't be enough until MS/Sony provided details in 2020 suggesting that it wouldn't be enough.

What are you babbling about? What you stated there does not answer the question I put forward, In what way is having a 1080p screen meaning you have a very old PC?

EastCoastHandle · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:19

CuriousTomCat said:
Lets look at last gen shall we?

PS4 8Gb GDDR5 VRAM in 2013
GTX 780 Ti 3Gb GDDR5 VRAM in 2013

How did we cope is 2013 when a high end graphics card had less than half the memory of the consoles? The situation in 2013 looks worse than it is today.

So that's an admission. Nvidia didn't know and will release variants (Ti/s) like they did with the 1000 series, like that did with the 2000 series. <---See a trend yet?
But this time provide more vram. Winning!

opethdisciple · 3 Sep 2020 at 19:19

EastCoastHandle said:
Is it possible that you could understand that Nvidia has had no interaction, not proven anyway, with console developers regarding next gen PS5/XsX besides older games already released to PC?

Therefore, Nvidia didn't know that 8/10 wouldn't be enough until MS/Sony provided details in 2020 suggesting that it wouldn't be enough.

No. Read the Reddit thread.

"
Why only 10 GB of memory for RTX 3080? How was that determined to be a sufficient number, when it is stagnant from the previous generation?

[Justin Walker] We’re constantly analyzing memory requirements of the latest games and regularly review with game developers to understand their memory needs for current and upcoming games. The goal of 3080 is to give you great performance at up to 4k resolution with all the settings maxed out at the best possible price. In order to do this, you need a very powerful GPU with high speed memory and enough memory to meet the needs of the games. A few examples - if you look at Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Assassin’s Creed Odyssey, Metro Exodus, Wolfenstein Youngblood, Gears of War 5, Borderlands 3 and Red Dead Redemption 2 running on a 3080 at 4k with Max settings (including any applicable high res texture packs) and RTX On, when the game supports it, you get in the range of 60-100fps and use anywhere from 4GB to 6GB of memory. Extra memory is always nice to have but it would increase the price of the graphics card, so we need to find the right balance."