Cyberpunk 2077 Ultra performance

[zx128k]

If they didn't have to accommodate people without any RT capable hardware the game could be fully path traced with better performance than currently with RT enabled - albeit would be some specular noise issues which would need probably 2-3x faster hardware again to accommodate the ray budget to eliminate to an ideal level.

What RTX does is instead of simulating every single light ray in a scene, which can sometimes end up giving you say, 20 hours-per-frame instead of 60 frames-per-second, RTX simulates only about 4 light rays per pixel, and then uses some clever hardware to make really good guesses about what the scene would look like if you were to continue calculating the light in the scene to try to give the most realistic scene possible. Nvidia's RTX cards are specially built to make these guesses, which make the scene look much more realistic, but not quite as good as Pixar or Illumination's animation softwares.

Pathtracing. It's the holy grail of computer graphics, it features mind-bending math, needs ridiculous computers to render it, and... looks almost indistinguishable from real life.

With pathtracing, instead of just simulating 5 or 6 light rays to get reflections and shadows and whatnot, you simulate thousands, or even millions, per pixel. Pathtracing simulates what would happen if you took the solid geometry of a scene and put it into the real world with a camera by trying to simulate every light ray that would hit the camera in a scene. Pathtracing looks at all the objects in the scene, and it uses even more math to figure out how light rays will reflect off an object. For example a mirror might reflect the light straight off, but a white wall will reflect in all different directions. The simulation of all the light rays in a scene is called "global illumination."

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1061006-pathtracing-vs-raytracing-disambiguation/

Pathtracing is more an offline rendering method. Also you can just use shaders for pathtracing...

Quake rtx is not a good example of pathtracing. Same with minecraft.

There is only a limited amount of rays that can be cast by affordable graphics hardware.

 

[Rroff]

From my test room - mirror on the left - if you look closely can see that the material lighting is correct for the mirror perspective as well which isn't the case in games like CP2077 and WDL, etc. that have used RT so far.

 

[Wrinkly]

Here is the clear benefits of ray traced SSR.
sorry that they are low res gif as it doesn't need the detail to demonstrate.
(What actually bugs me is that surface is wet/water yet no water splash when you drive/run through etc)

but anyway one for the fanboys to drool over @Wrinkly

RT On

higher detail consistent reflection

RT Off

lower detail reflection that disappears when the object is not visible

For me the drop fps is still too much and DLSS at 1440 has a blur I don't like in motion.
(I have not used DLSS in any other game so I don't know if it's just this game)

@4K DLSS is fine(not noticable) but at that res I can't get playable frames with RT on anyway.

RT is still just a teaser for what might be possible in a year or 2.

Why fanboy, does that then make you just another tech. hater? I agree fluid should act like fluid and is constantly overlooked. I found the recent Doom games to be very flat for the same reason. I had a look at the water yesterday and find it to be the worst implementation since...

I find it odd that Nvidia didn't use FluidFX for the larger bodies of water.

 

[Rroff]

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1061006-pathtracing-vs-raytracing-disambiguation/

Pathtracing is more an offline rendering method. Also you can just use shaders for pathtracing...

I'm not sure what you are saying but path tracing on shaders is not efficient, on older hardware it is many many times slower than nVidia's RT implementation, even with a lot of work put into removing some of the bottlenecks it is not great in AMD's implementation - while I commend them for their effort in that regard it is still a second best way of doing it - however much performance they ever squeeze out of it they would have always got more using an approach more like nVidia's every time.

Path tracing for gaming use as in Quake 2 RTX is perfectly feasible - especially if we don't have to accommodate rendering the game on hardware without RT support and can rebalance the hardware more towards RT and less traditional rasterisation - the only caveat really is that upping the ray budget enough to a more ideal place for quality especially specular could do with a bit faster hardware than we have now.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

The Marbles demo has a far higher level of fidelity than is strictly required for games - .

How is it a higher fidelity than what is required for a game?

For instance Quake 2 RTX has only fast approximate caustics (and for time and lack of situations that use the feature in the standard Quake 2 maps the feature implementation is incomplete in Quake 2) while the Marbles demo has a complex, performance costly, caustics simulation far beyond what would satisfy the needs for gaming use.

I've just rewatched the marbles at night demo and I don't think that was present in the marbles at night demo.

Quake 2 RTX also does not use DLSS - the inclusion of that in a gaming scenario would boost performance strongly again - the new temporal upscaling does mimic much of the performance boost you'd get with the use of DLSS but not the image quality enhancement - it still does pretty well though - this for instance is a base 360p resolution render using temporal upscaling

.

that would only increase the performance difference between the two examples.

 

[nvidiamd]

From my test room - mirror on the left - if you look closely can see that the material lighting is correct for the mirror perspective as well which isn't the case in games like CP2077 and WDL, etc. that have used RT so far.

Put some bullets on the wall and see if the holes get reflected in the mirror.

 

[scubes]

I know it's off topic. Have you tried any of the mods on Nexus for key binds? Surprised no one has done a full blown editor but had a look on git and nothing.

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/102

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/429

The latter also adds extra graphics options.

Excellent thank you maybe get to play this game now hopefully.

 

[Wrinkly]

Why is it hard for you to understand that for some people less than 60 or even higher is unplayable? Their opinion counts for just as much as yours so for them RT is a feature that is counter productive.

I just told you, the same people that now claim 60FPS is unplayable were playing at 60FPS just a few years ago. Sure there opinion counts as much as mine, but we are getting to the BS levels of what is now playable

 

[nvidiamd]

I just told you, the same people that now claim 60FPS is unplayable were playing at 60FPS just a few years ago. Sure there opinion counts as much as mine, but we are getting to the BS levels of what is now playable

But we were playing at 16 FPS in the 90s so my 5600xt is enough for gaming.

 

[Wrinkly]

I also noticed that what we call RT reflections are a hoax. The static objects are all pre-baked and only the dynamic objects are reflected in real time. You can destroy a room and the reflection won't show you that, someone proved this with a footage from Control. I am not sure about CP but one can try to do some damage on a building reflected in a puddle or another surface. And you will see that the reflection is in fact pre-baked, you won't see the destruction in the reflection. Such a waste of resources for almost nothing to gain.

CP seems better in this regard. With realtime RT, as opposed to pre baked, we can have a lot more dynamisim in games. Not just destroying objects, but also the environment. We could have Red Faction levels of destruction with lighting quality better than todays AAA games.

 

[Wrinkly]

But we were playing at 16 FPS in the 90s so my 5600xt is enough for gaming.

True, but I wouldn't call the 90s just a few years ago.

 

[nvidiamd]

CP seems better in this regard. With realtime RT, as opposed to pre baked, we can have a lot more dynamisim in games. Not just destroying objects, but also the environment. We could have Red Faction levels of destruction with lighting quality better than todays AAA games.

But try that in CP. Find a reflective surface and do some destruction on the scene and see if the destruction gets reflected. If it does, then it is a big step ahead.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

I just told you, the same people that now claim 60FPS is unplayable were playing at 60FPS just a few years ago. Sure there opinion counts as much as mine, but we are getting to the BS levels of what is now playable

I was just told that SSR is unplayable by the same people that were playing with SSR just a few years ago.

 

[Grim5]

From my test room - mirror on the left - if you look closely can see that the material lighting is correct for the mirror perspective as well which isn't the case in games like CP2077 and WDL, etc. that have used RT so far.

this is why I want to play portal where the walls are covered in mirrors

 

[VincentHanna]

You don't need high frame rates for single player experiences IMO, unless it's some sort of ultra twitch shooter.

60 FPS (or less with VRR/G-sync) is perfectly fine.

Higher refresh rates should only really be your concern for VR/multiplayer and maybe driving games.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

You don't need high frame rates for single player experiences IMO, unless it's some sort of ultra twitch shooter.

60 FPS (or less with VRR/G-sync) is perfectly fine.

Higher refresh rates should only really be your concern for VR/multiplayer and maybe driving games.

People say this a lot but nobody seems to want to go into detail. Why?

First let us define what is high refresh rate?
Second what is the benefit of high refresh rate, both to gameplay and graphics?
third why is it unecessary in single player games?

Edit: Also why does whenever someone makes this statement it comes across like there are two types of games, CSGO style and a slow paced game like heavy rain.

 

[Troezar]

Well, my Gregster,

Did you know there are 200 variety of sprouts? In the 70's & 80's the sprout was a bitter 'orrible baby cabbage.

Now,....... flippin' lush. Sweet tasting balls of love.

You'd love a whole bowl in butter n' chestnuts, though whizzbangs are still the same!

2021 for Gregster = try sprouts again.

Better tasting than your (2020 lockdown) hairstyle of 2020.

You're right but there's also a gene TAS2R38 some people have that makes them taste much stronger, even bitter. Luckily I don't have it and love a nice sprout, not overcooked though

 

[VincentHanna]

People say this a lot but nobody seems to want to go into detail. Why?

First let us define what is high refresh rate?

120fps+ (my opinion)

Second what is the benefit of high refresh rate, both to gameplay and graphics?

To gameplay? Less input lag, better control in general.
To Graphics? Nothing really, other than better temporal resolution

third why is it unecessary in single player games?

Because it's such a small improvement over 60fps in a single player game.

Give me 60fps with top-tier graphics, over 120fps with average graphics any day of the week for single player games.

 

[Rroff]

Put some bullets on the wall and see if the holes get reflected in the mirror.

Game doesn't have bullet impacts as standard - I've not got around to adding bullet impacts that render correctly with RTX yet so it is a bit ugly but will suffice to demonstrate

One of the things that really stands out for me as well is the reflected scattered light

(Ignore the shell casings are floating and an old model with 8bit colour skins and not using RTX materials - I'm still very much prototyping)

this is why I want to play portal where the walls are covered in mirrors

The nice thing is you aren't limited to planes, etc. any object can have real time, accurate, reflections from all angles, etc. (though there is a limit currently on reflections of objects with refraction/reflections and/or multiple levels of transparency).

 

[ICDP]

looks much beter trhan witcher 3 even with RT off

Are you serisous, oh wait it's you GrimVidia. Move along people you wont find any objectivity from the person I just quoted.