Wokery

JRS · 13 Jul 2021 at 15:25

MikeTheNative said:
I do find it rather funny the section of people who complain about the younger generations bee too sensitive and get triggered at everything. Then they go have a absolute meltdown over this. lol

I'm glad that people have the time to be this outraged tbh...

omnomnom · 13 Jul 2021 at 15:26

R.P.L said:
Sure.

Just because you and some other right wingers have made up a definition that doesnt make it the actual definition im afraid.

FortuitousFluke · 13 Jul 2021 at 15:28

Roar87 said:
People don't support "taking a knee", they associate it with BLM, BLM has a lot of negative connotations for a lot of people. They were responsible for wide spread looting and vandalism in the US last year, their founder was a Marxist, they are using a "Raised Fist" which has strong links to Communist parties from the 1930's for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roter_Frontkämpferbund

No one is going to boo something positive to do with anti-racism in football like the Standing up to Racism Campaign the Premier league did. This is just an attempt to force people into accepting a political position they don't agree with.

I didn't know the clenched fist had communist links. Seems like an odd choice of affiliation for a civil rights organisation. I wonder if there are any other groups, possibly more recent, with a link to the civil rights movement, which also used the clenched raised fist as a symbol of fighting oppression.

I guess we'll never know.

Dis86 · 13 Jul 2021 at 15:30

JRS said:
If you're so exercised about the players being "overpaid millionaires" then why are you even watching? Just change the channel/don't go to matches

***edit***

Not gonna link to it due to the language, but Tom Walker's latest Jonathan Pie vid is bang on...

Because one can try and enjoy the spectacle despite that fact :confused:

It doesn't interrupt it.

Freakbro · 13 Jul 2021 at 15:30

JRS said:
***edit***

Not gonna link to it due to the language, but Tom Walker's latest Jonathan Pie vid is bang on...

Just seen it, spot on as usual

Dis86 · 13 Jul 2021 at 15:34

FishFluff said:
On this occasion. Racism directed at the players is an ongoing thing, as are their protests. It's extraordinary to me that you take issue with something that takes up literally 2 seconds of the match.

Its extraordinary to me that you take issue with something that takes up literally no time as its not an interruption to play but something happening outside of the activity of the game.

MikeTimbers · 13 Jul 2021 at 15:35

Jonathan's hair is getting dangerously Hitleresque

Roar87 · 13 Jul 2021 at 15:53

FortuitousFluke said:
I didn't know the clenched fist had communist links. Seems like an odd choice of affiliation for a civil rights organisation. I wonder if there are any other groups, possibly more recent, with a link to the civil rights movement, which also used the clenched raised fist as a symbol of fighting oppression.

I guess we'll never know.

The founder said herself she is a Marxist and the logo is a raised fist, I know you would like to link the raised fist to other groups, and that might be plausible if she herself hadn't come out and said it. This alongside the goal of defunding the Police, mass looting and rioting, but you want people not to boo players supporting that, what planet are you guys from? 99.9% of people have no issue with black players, I'm a huge fan of a lot of them, but I'm against "taking a knee".

JRS · 13 Jul 2021 at 15:58

Dis86 said:
Because one can try and enjoy the spectacle despite that fact

It doesn't interrupt it.

So what the haemorrhaging **** is the problem then?

Dis86 · 13 Jul 2021 at 16:00

JRS said:
So what the haemorrhaging **** is the problem then?

The point is taking the knee does...

FortuitousFluke · 13 Jul 2021 at 16:02

Roar87 said:
The founder said herself she is a Marxist and the logo is a raised fist, I know you would like to link the raised fist to other groups, and that might be plausible if she herself hadn't come out said it. This alongside the goal of defunding the Police, mass looting and rioting, but you want people not to boo players supporting that, what planet are you guys from? 99.9% of people have no issue with black players, I'm a huge fan of a lot of them, but I'm against "taking a knee".

Except that taking the knee does not imply direct support for the BLM organisation anymore. The meaning of the symbol has broadened way beyond the organisation and now is broadly understood to be an act in support of minority (mainly black) rights in general.

Question, if the players had decided to adopt another symbol to differentiate their protest from BLM as a political organisation, but to still show support to the civil rights movement, do you think the same minority of fans in stadiums would still be booing? They would, and we both know it, because their attitudes have precisely jack all to do with ideological opposition to BLM, communism or defunding the police. Racism is still alive and well in football and the abuse the players have received on social media etc justifies their stance despite the minority insisting that everything is fine.

Roar87 · 13 Jul 2021 at 16:04

FortuitousFluke said:
Except that taking the knee does not imply direct support for the BLM organisation anymore. The meaning of the symbol has broadened way beyond the organisation and now is broadly understood to be an act in support of minority (mainly black) rights in general.

Question, if the players had decided to adopt another symbol to differentiate their protest from BLM as a political organisation, but to still show support to the civil rights movement, do you think the same minority of fans in stadiums would still be booing? They would, and we both know it, because their attitudes have precisely jack all to do with ideological opposition to BLM, communism or defunding the police. Racism is still alive and well in football and the abuse the players have received on social media etc justifies their stance despite the minority insisting that everything is fine.

So you think hundreds or thousands of people in Wembley who are opposed to taking the knee are doing so because they are racist? The Home Secretary who supports that stance as an Asian woman is also racist. Ok man, I think we might have to disagree there.

FortuitousFluke · 13 Jul 2021 at 16:07

Roar87 said:
So you think hundreds or thousands of people in Wembley who are opposed to taking the knee are doing so because they are racist? The Home Secretary who supports that stance as an Asian woman is also racist. Ok man, I think we might have to disagree there.

I think the majority of people in the crowd who booed did so because they hold racist views, yes, not all, but most.

In terms of the home secretary, I suspect that's less about racism and more about good old fashioned authoritarianism, I could however be wrong.

EdwardTeach · 13 Jul 2021 at 16:13

Roar87 said:
So you think hundreds or thousands of people in Wembley who are opposed to taking the knee are doing so because they are racist? The Home Secretary who supports that stance as an Asian woman is also racist. Ok man, I think we might have to disagree there.

If you don't think Asians can be racist,
then you are totally deluded. Asians are plenty racist, especially towards black people.

Dis86 · 13 Jul 2021 at 16:15

EdwardTeach said:
. Asians are plenty racist, especially towards black people.

A beautifully racist statement in itself.

Roar87 · 13 Jul 2021 at 16:21

FortuitousFluke said:
I think the majority of people in the crowd who booed did so because they hold racist views, yes, not all, but most.

In terms of the home secretary, I suspect that's less about racism and more about good old fashioned authoritarianism, I could however be wrong.

So it couldn't be that they've watched all the carnage on the news caused by BLM in America, seen what their stance is in regards to certain things, the corruption at the top of the organisation siphoning off millions of $$ for example, you're just going to say most people who boo are racist. Ok.

Dis86 said:
A beautifully racist statement in itself.

People who have these types of views like to put people in boxes, they've already decided most football fans are probably racist despite having never attended a game in their life most likely.

R.P.L · 13 Jul 2021 at 16:27

omnomnom said:
Just because you and some other right wingers have made up a definition that doesnt make it the actual definition im afraid.

I only go by the behaviour I see from self-confessed woke people so don't worry, nothing's being made up

FortuitousFluke · 13 Jul 2021 at 16:27

Roar87 said:
So it couldn't be that they've watched all the carnage on the news caused by BLM in America, seen what their stance is in regards to certain things, the corruption at the top of the organisation siphoning off millions of $$ for example, you're just going to say most people who boo are racist. Ok.

People who have these types of views like to put people in boxes, they've already decided most football fans are probably racist despite having never attended a game in their life most likely.

Swing and a miss, we've decided a tiny minority of football fans are racist, they just tend to be very vocal.

In response to your other point, yes, they could be booing due to their following of events in America. However, my years of following football, of travelling to grounds and witnessing some of the crap that goes on, of seeing the visibility of the racism reduce with sanctions whilst the fan base stayed broadly the same, suggests to me that recent affairs have just emboldened the minority that already existed within the sport to make their voices heard yet again.

dowie · 13 Jul 2021 at 16:30

JRS said:
Condone - transitive verb, to regard or treat (something bad or blameworthy) as acceptable, forgivable, or harmless.

iNews - Priti Patel does not support England players taking the knee and says fans have right to boo.

Fair enough, I wasn't aware that she had. Did Johnson too?

Then again I guess she is the home secretary and presided over all the BLM nonsense last summer so perhaps is a bit fed up with these sorts of political gestures popularised by violent groups like that.

dowie · 13 Jul 2021 at 16:33

FortuitousFluke said:
Except that taking the knee does not imply direct support for the BLM organisation anymore. The meaning of the symbol has broadened way beyond the organisation and now is broadly understood to be an act in support of minority (mainly black) rights in general.

Thats the thing on one side you've got this symbol popularised by BLM and then claims they want to use it not in support of BLM but just to symbolise solidarity against racism then you have fans who see it as strongly associated with BLM and booing it because of that.

FortuitousFluke said:
Question, if the players had decided to adopt another symbol to differentiate their protest from BLM as a political organisation, but to still show support to the civil rights movement, do you think the same minority of fans in stadiums would still be booing?

For quite a few of them probably not, that's the reason lots of them are booing, because of the association with BLM.