Wokery

Status
Not open for further replies.
Caporegime
Joined
29 Jan 2008
Posts
55,378
Except that taking the knee does not imply direct support for the BLM organisation anymore. The meaning of the symbol has broadened way beyond the organisation and now is broadly understood to be an act in support of minority (mainly black) rights in general.

Thats the thing on one side you've got this symbol popularised by BLM and then claims they want to use it not in support of BLM but just to symbolise solidarity against racism then you have fans who see it as strongly associated with BLM and booing it because of that.

Question, if the players had decided to adopt another symbol to differentiate their protest from BLM as a political organisation, but to still show support to the civil rights movement, do you think the same minority of fans in stadiums would still be booing?

For quite a few of them probably not, that's the reason lots of them are booing, because of the association with BLM.
 
Soldato
Joined
21 Jan 2010
Posts
11,325
Is it the Daily Mail pushing the whole "on the knee" is a BLM thing?

The knee thing predates whatever modern incarnate BLM is, so I don't see how people who feel the need to boo at sporting competitions would be making that connection at all.
 

JRS

JRS

Soldato
Joined
6 Jun 2004
Posts
18,233
Location
Burton-on-Trent
Fair enough, I wasn't aware that she had.

Holy ****!

An acknowledgement, from you, that you were wrong and/or not in possession of the full facts!! What crazy, messed-up universe did I wake up in this morning????

I don't wish to harp on, but this is a Big ******* Deal™. Ordinarily you'd be defending a barely-defensible position for six pages before simply stonewalling and changing the subject! What's changed? :D
 
Soldato
Joined
10 May 2012
Posts
8,019
Location
Leeds
Is it the Daily Mail pushing the whole "on the knee" is a BLM thing?

The knee thing predates whatever modern incarnate BLM is, so I don't see how people who feel the need to boo at sporting competitions would be making that connection at all.

40851704-9394925-image-m-19_1616533568843.jpg


How many pictures like this would you like me to link exactly? It would probably need a new thread
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Nov 2009
Posts
18,929
Location
Glasgow
Didn’t you know, taking a knee is showing support for Scottish independence…
The guys doing it has a Scotland logo on his shirt so it must be true!
E0-EB78-C6-B1-EC-411-C-A540-15-CAFE8208-C0.jpg


the usual racists are hilarious today.
 
Soldato
Joined
29 Dec 2014
Posts
4,616
Location
16509
So the comedian Andrew Lawrence decided to live life on the edge by posting a tweet about the penalties; https://news.sky.com/story/comedian...ments-in-the-wake-of-euro-2020-final-12354757

I did see the tweet, it's on the wiki page, looks like he's in the middle of being cancelled entirely from online existence, social media pages gone, twitter gone, gigs cancelled, agent dropped him, so on.

Part of me thinks he should have read the mood in the room a little, but then - being a comedian, it's all about finding where the line is and trying to go over it... something that he seems to have failed at :D

I saw the tweets (they're on his wiki) and to be honest, I didn't think they were offensive, a bit abrasive and cruel considering the circumstances, but I don't think they warrant the complete destruction of his online presence and attempted destruction of his career..

Then I just realised to my amusement, that "Roy Chubby Brown" probably one of the most offensive and racist comedians to ever exist, has a fully working twitter account, is all over youtube and social media and seems to be doing very well... It seems very strange!
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Nov 2006
Posts
22,122
Is it the Daily Mail pushing the whole "on the knee" is a BLM thing?

The knee thing predates whatever modern incarnate BLM is, so I don't see how people who feel the need to boo at sporting competitions would be making that connection at all.

Not the first symbol to be appropriated by a political movement with dubious leadership...
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Feb 2003
Posts
3,875
Is it the Daily Mail pushing the whole "on the knee" is a BLM thing?

The knee thing predates whatever modern incarnate BLM is, so I don't see how people who feel the need to boo at sporting competitions would be making that connection at all.

Then you are naive.

Symbols change their meaning all the time.

Kneeling will always be predominantly associated with the horrible organisation which is BLM, no matter what its origin was.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiew...ppropriation-of-rainbow-flag/?sh=125fde7bd544
 
Caporegime
Joined
29 Jan 2008
Posts
55,378
I don't wish to harp on, but this is a Big ******* Deal™. Ordinarily you'd be defending a barely-defensible position for six pages before simply stonewalling and changing the subject! What's changed? :D

LOL nothing has changed, you actually pointed out something that was factually incorrect. Most of the time people try to throw in straw man arguments etc.. :)
 
Soldato
Joined
21 Apr 2003
Posts
3,148
Location
South North West
Kneeling is a dangerous area to have an opinion on, but my strongly anti-knee, er... stance is that on the rare occasions I bother with sport (money ruins everything), I do so as an escape from the mess of problems that makes up my every day life. What folk do in their well paid spare time is their business, but on the pitch I want balls dribbling, not sagging to the ground.

The kneeling cult is doing absolutely nothing whatsoever to stop people getting stroppy and lashing out with the most convenient and hurtful of critiques when things go wrong or the opposition needs antagonising. If you're bald, like me, you'll always be "you bald git!" when tempers flare. And if you're black in a predominantly white environment, then it's all too easy for the lazy or ignorant to reach for epithets which reflect that obvious otherness. It's a soft, lazy, kind of racism in a world where the hardcore version exists in nations we trade with every day. Especially Qatar. Neither's right, but we're a lot further down the slow road to fairness than the culturally puritanical Chinese, who are busy taking over the world's resources while we squabble among ourselves.

I'm pretty sure the majority of booing is nothing to do with racism and everything to do with "get on with it, you're footballers earning a bazillion times more than me and I've forked out this ticket money for a football game, not a lecture!" But the UK has had a collective nervous breakdown since Brexit revealed the unwashed masses were bolshier than their masters ever dared guess (shows how much history they read!) Then covid came along to give us too long to think about things. So now every little pimple of discontent gets squeezed, poked and infected -- rather than sterilised -- by the scrutiny of mass and social media, until it becomes something dangerous to overall cultural health.

Racism will end when, inevitably, every street in every nation is populated by one homogenous blur of folk from all over the place and individual nationality/ethnic traits vanish... probably speaking Mandarin. We're all just lucky chimps at the end of the day, and chimps are nasty and tribal and genetically programmed to throw dung at 'the other'. Overcoming millennia of ingrained evolutionary behavioural biology is hard and takes time and patience. Both are in short supply because mass migration and then the internet have come along close together (in historical terms) like two halves of a crude atomic cultural warhead.

Kneeling is gesture politics, and is helping defuse nothing whatsoever. It's just another bit of grit in our shoes as we trudge along the winding path to a better future (or ecological oblivion).

Right, I'm off to my nuclear bunker to check the dates on my supply of long life rations and practice mixing metaphors until they blur together seamlessly in one gloriously puzzling paragraph.

TLDR: Just another irrelevant old white guy typing into the moral void. My heroes are scientists and engineers, not bladder-kickers, so what would I know?
 
Last edited:
Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,188
Location
Just to the left of my PC
Expressing compassion or empathy.

Except for people deemed by the ideology to be an inferior biological group identity, of course, because their lives don't matter and they must be blamed for being attacked (and for everything else) because they're the wrong biological group identity.

Wokery is a new name but not a new ideology. It's the same old ideology of authoritarianism, irrational prejudices and victim blaming with a very superficial rebranding.

As for the alleged racism in this case, I haven't seen any evidence that there was any. Lots of unsubstantiated allegations, but no evidence. Some footballers who missed penalties in a major tournament final were criticised for it. Probably very rudely in some cases. Probably to an irrational extent in some cases. Maybe there was some racism. I wouldn't be surprised if there was, since racism exists and their failure attracted the attention of a lot of people. But I haven't seen any evidence of it, let alone that all the criticism was racism.
 
Soldato
Joined
17 Jul 2007
Posts
24,041
Location
Solihull-Florida
So what your point? Because you are deaf and disabled people should be allowed to call someone the n-word.


You should really read the thread from where you left off.
It's embarrassing having to explain it to you.

I said pages back.

You don't hear Blind\Deaf\Disabled people moaning.
They get call ed names all there lives.

And then it went on from there.
You read it wrong as you always do. Grow and be an adult will ya.
 
Soldato
Joined
3 Oct 2007
Posts
7,538
Location
London, UK
Patel and Johnson did no such thing and the racism, while abhorrent, seems to be both over-hyped by the media and artificially generated in the first place in many case.

The monkey emojis, as Southgate commented, seem to be from overseas accounts/bots etc... the graffiti on the Rashford mural doesn't seem to have been racist but rather is some angry idiot.

Some LARPers, seemingly Somalis, have made their twitter accounts look like EDL types and started tweeting racist stuff regarding the players.

And one Estate Agency manager has a racist tweet from his account - whether from him or as he claims, a third party (idiot, racist mate in the pub? hacked?) is still tba... pending investigation.

I'm sorry are you taking the ****? Is that your go to for everything you want to excuse, LAPRing?

You have no idea what DMs were sent to the players. Stop making excuses for these knuckle draggers and there are lots of them. Players get this crap every day, educate yourself dowie please. This is an ex players, he isn't outspoken, I'm a Spurs fan, he's a Gooner and I still think the guy is a legend. No one should have to put up with this crap full stop!


Yes Johnson and Patel did. They waded into something to win political points. There was no need to say booing the players is fine. That just emboldened the knuckle draggers. They should have either stayed out of it or said they supported the players stance against racism. They didn't but then tried to jump on board as the team progressed, wearing their England shirts and posting on social media, then when it all turns hateful they act all horrified. Please spare me their crocodile tears.
 
Soldato
Joined
17 Jul 2007
Posts
24,041
Location
Solihull-Florida
No I was talking about so called England fans kicking off after the game and started fights and throwing bottles because they lost. You know, mentally weak men not being able to lose a game without losing their ****


You should of been around the 70\80s.
There used to giant fights between fans before and after a match.
 
Caporegime
Joined
29 Jan 2008
Posts
55,378
I'm sorry are you taking the ****? Is that your go to for everything you want to excuse, LAPRing?

You have no idea what DMs were sent to the players. Stop making excuses for these knuckle draggers and there are lots of them. Players get this crap every day, educate yourself dowie please. .

LOL educate yourself I'm not referring to the DM's or overseas posters/bots spamming monkey emojis there, I'm referring to some fo the viral tweets that were supposedly racist football fans but turned out to be LARPers.

This account for example, mimicking that estate agent manager tweeted the below and some worse ones using the n-word and joking about domestic violence:

N32YRSD.jpg


Note the user name, now look at web archive:

https://web.archive.org/web/20200729213452/https://twitter.com/picofru/

Note the display name and profile pic are rather different - this account seems to be some random Somali guy, blatantly not the estate agency employee's account, in fact, he's taken down all his social media. you could also see this just by scrolling a bit further down the timeline.

Now another one, also appears at face value to be some EDL type but on closer inspection of earlier tweets is another Somali guy LARPing as an England supporter:


Likewise re: the monkey comments etc.. as the England manager has pointed out, plenty of them have been tracked to overseas accounts.

I think "LARPer" is quite appropriate to use here for some apparent Somali who has changed his profile picture and display name in order to appear to be a far right England fan and then tweet a bunch of racist stuff. this sort of thing feeds all the hype.

the monkey emojis apparently are largely coming from overseas - I'd not be surprised if they were bots. There are clearly some racists out there but they're a small minority these days and this gets rather hyped up.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,188
Location
Just to the left of my PC
Length of match - 90 minutes plus extras
Length of "ham-fisted political statements" - a few seconds

Yes, I can certainly see why it's such a big problem for these people :rolleyes:

It's an archaic formal gesture acknowledging higher status and declaring obedience. It was often used as an acknowledgement of defeat, where the defeated bent the knee to the victor.

That's a very extreme gesture of obeisance to a political ideology, especially one that's explicitly and proudly racist and authoritarian, which routinely uses violence as a political tool and which strives to promote division and conflict within society in order to increase the power and wealth of its leaders. Some people dislike ideologies like that, regardless of how fashionable they are. The amount of time for which they are required to give public support to absolute obedience to such an ideology doesn't matter - what matters is that they are required to do so.

Would you see the problem if the players of a national team gave a Nazi salute and pledged obedience to the Fuhrer before each match? Would you say that wouldn't be a problem because it only took a few seconds?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom