Afghanistan - 20 years on

[Rroff]

Unlike the invasion and subsequent defeat which cost very little?

My comparison was to if this had been done in a more managed manner over weeks and months instead.

 

[ianh]

What really pees me off about Afghanistan and the people constantly referring to "Us" or "We" going in and causing or contributing to this mess is that NO-ONE WANTED THIS!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_war_in_Afghanistan

Public money used against our will and now we are left to pick up the pieces.

I'm not sure if you're old enough to appreciate just how world altering the attacks on 9/11 were (combined with the subsequent Anthrax attacks on the US - often forgotten), but the overwhelming vast majority of the UK was fully behind the US/UK going into Afghanistan in October 2001 to "get Bin Laden" as shown by the tiny figure of just 20K-ish people involved in the UK protests (approx 0.02% of the UK pop).

After that initial "get Bin Laden" phase (6-12 months at most) we pivoted to "Nation Building" which, again, the overwhelming vast majority were behind but we were starting to show some wariness. It's only since 2003 and the shocking decision to "forget" about Afghanistan to concentrate on Iraq that the Taliban, who'd virtually left the entire of Afghanistan, started to come back leading to the 2004-5 with the increase in combat leading a change in public perception on what we were doing there.

 

[Tefal]

I'd be interested to know how the US and allies will evacuate their own soldiers. Unless you've literally got 20 planes full taking off at the same time, you'll be leaving the last bunch of soldiers vulnerable.

Presumably they'll also be reliant on the Taliban to secure the airport so that there's not a rush by Afghani's at the end to try and get on a plane.

Helecopter gun ships and fighters seems to be the current method.

Just depends if an apache is going to fire into/infront of/over the head of a crowd when it comes to it though

 

[Tefal]

I'm not sure if you're old enough to appreciate just how world altering the attacks on 9/11 were (combined with the subsequent Anthrax attacks on the US - often forgotten), but the overwhelming vast majority of the UK was fully behind the US/UK going into Afghanistan in October 2001 to "get Bin Laden" as shown by the tiny figure of just 20K-ish people involved in the UK protests (approx 0.02% of the UK pop).

After that initial "get Bin Laden" phase (6-12 months at most) we pivoted to "Nation Building" which, again, the overwhelming vast majority were behind but we were starting to show some wariness. It's only since 2003 and the shocking decision to "forget" about Afghanistan to concentrate on Iraq that the Taliban, who'd virtually left the entire of Afghanistan, started to come back leading to the 2004-5 with the increase in combat leading a change in public perception on what we were doing there.

What?

I remember the largest protests in UK history and massive lue about WMDs having to be made up

 

[Tefal]

I'm not sure if you're old enough to appreciate just how world altering the attacks on 9/11 were (combined with the subsequent Anthrax attacks on the US - often forgotten), but the overwhelming vast majority of the UK was fully behind the US/UK going into Afghanistan in October 2001 to "get Bin Laden" as shown by the tiny figure of just 20K-ish people involved in the UK protests (approx 0.02% of the UK pop).

After that initial "get Bin Laden" phase (6-12 months at most) we pivoted to "Nation Building" which, again, the overwhelming vast majority were behind but we were starting to show some wariness. It's only since 2003 and the shocking decision to "forget" about Afghanistan to concentrate on Iraq that the Taliban, who'd virtually left the entire of Afghanistan, started to come back leading to the 2004-5 with the increase in combat leading a change in public perception on what we were doing there.

20k?


The BBC had it down as 1 million

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2765041.stm

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

I'm not sure if you're old enough to appreciate just how world altering the attacks on 9/11 were (combined with the subsequent Anthrax attacks on the US - often forgotten), but the overwhelming vast majority of the UK was fully behind the US/UK going into Afghanistan in October 2001 to "get Bin Laden" as shown by the tiny figure of just 20K-ish people involved in the UK protests (approx 0.02% of the UK pop).

After that initial "get Bin Laden" phase (6-12 months at most) we pivoted to "Nation Building" which, again, the overwhelming vast majority were behind but we were starting to show some wariness. It's only since 2003 and the shocking decision to "forget" about Afghanistan to concentrate on Iraq that the Taliban, who'd virtually left the entire of Afghanistan, started to come back leading to the 2004-5 with the increase in combat leading a change in public perception on what we were doing there.

If you frame it as a percentage of the population then of course It looks tiny. The fact of the matter is that the Stop the War protests were the largest in British history and had around 750'000 to 1'000'000 people.

Yes there needed to be a response to the 9-11 attacks but an invasion of Afghanistan didn't even make sense based on who funded the hijackers along with their nationalities, which were made up of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Lebanon and Egypt. It certainly didn't need 2 Trillion dollars and 20 years to complete and the only thing it appears to have achieved is moving public money to the arms industry.

 

[ianh]

@Tefal & @Zatoichi.uK - Remember we are talking about the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan, not the absolutely huge anti-Iraq war protests of 2003 or the subsequent 2005+ anti-Afghanistan war protests.

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

@Tefal & @Zatoichi.uK - Remember we are talking about the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan, not the absolutely huge anti-Iraq war protests of 2003 or the subsequent 2005+ anti-Afghanistan war protests.

It's certainly true that the protests only grew in size. The 20'000 figure was from 2001 but the general sentiment even back then was one of hesitancy. It was the amazing disappearing WMDs that sparked the larger protests when it became apparent that we had been lied to.

 

[Dis86]

20k?


The BBC had it down as 1 million

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2765041.stm

That was the protest against the Iraq war. I mean...its in the headline.

 

[Rroff]

I don't really remember a single person opposed to the Afghan war post 9/11 - a few who were indifferent but very few against it. It was a different age.

 

[doodah]

Probably didn't help with the media on both sides of the Atlantic cheering it on, followed by Iraq.

 

[nine_tails]

It's one of those things right, governments always twist sentiment to their advantage.

 

[ianh]

It's certainly true that the protests only grew in size. The 20'000 figure was from 2001 but the general sentiment even back then was one of hesitancy. It was the amazing disappearing WMDs that sparked the larger protests when it became apparent that we had been lied to.

Again, as I'm unsure of your age and therefore experience of 9/11, there wasn't a "general" hesitancy at all, there was virtually ZERO hesitancy in the Western world, never mind just the UK. Literally everyone was fully behind the US "getting Bin Laden". It was the Iraq war with with very dubious reasoning which sparked actual large scale protests, not Afghanistan.

 

[LeMson]

Again, as I'm unsure of your age and therefore experience of 9/11, there wasn't a "general" hesitancy at all, there was virtually ZERO hesitancy in the Western world, never mind just the UK. Literally everyone was fully behind the US "getting Bin Laden". It was the Iraq war with with very dubious reasoning which sparked actual large scale protests, not Afghanistan.

there was trepidation, when the taliban asked for evidence against bin laden, the USA had none, there was a lot of errrrr at the time

 

[B&W]

Shameful talk from Treudeu at the G7, talking about sanctions on Afghanistan, after 20 years of war/bombing civilians and corruption this is what this so called "liberal" wants?

Same for the rest of the faux morality about caring for the plight of the Afghan, biggest load of **** walking this earth.

Sick of this disgusting moral relativism which is immoral to the core.

 

[Johno please?]

there was trepidation, when the taliban asked for evidence against bin laden, the USA had none, there was a lot of errrrr at the time

It always makes me laugh when religious fanatics ask for evidence

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

Again, as I'm unsure of your age and therefore experience of 9/11, there wasn't a "general" hesitancy at all, there was virtually ZERO hesitancy in the Western world, never mind just the UK. Literally everyone was fully behind the US "getting Bin Laden". It was the Iraq war with with very dubious reasoning which sparked actual large scale protests, not Afghanistan.

Getting Bin Laden yes. A full scale invasion costing 2 Trillion Dollars, taking 20 years, and the total lives lost far exceeding that of the 9-11 attacks no. The appetite for war in that region has long since subsided.

 

[B&W]

It always makes me laugh when religious fanatics ask for evidence

Doesn't matter who asks for it, no negotiations were attempted at all.

Also they are hardly brain dead zealots as is often parroted here. They have professors and experts in there rank.

 

[ianh]

Getting Bin Laden yes. A full scale invasion costing 2 Trillion Dollars, taking 20 years, and the total lives lost far exceeding that of the 9-11 attacks no. The appetite for war in that region has long since subsided.

Thats the attitude now looking back in hindsight, that wasn't the attitude held by virtually everyone in October 2001. As said, it was the 2003 Iraq war which turned peoples attitudes towards Iraq initially and then Afghanistan by 2005.

 

[Johno please?]

Doesn't matter who asks for it, no negotiations were attempted at all.

Also they are hardly brain dead zealots as is often parroted here. They have professors and experts in there rank.

Cool. Still little bearded fascists.

But professors and experts? wow Afghanistan should be prospering within the next few decades then.