Poll: Australian Grand Prix 2022, Melbourne - Race 3

[englishpremier]

Saw the full replay of this one rather than live.

Is it just me, or is anyone else finding the races boring this year?

I think the new regulations work in letting the cars get closer together, and the overtaking has been fine, so it's a bit strange that I'm just not finding the races particularly exciting.

EDIT: Spelling. Bloody predictive text.

 

[MooMoo444]

why would you want to use something that's definitively worse?

That was part of the original reasoning if I recall. Having cars on different tyres would encourage overtaking.

In practice, it's a bit pap.

 

[Journey]

so it's a bit strange that I'm just not finding the races particularly exciting.

It wasn't an exciting race tbh, nothing exciting happened really. You had your normal few laps at the start or restart of potential overtakes, then the normal undercut/overcut in the pit stops. It's very formulaic almost, you can predict what will happen still to some extent other than random crashes and retirements. Maybe it is time they actually tried to change something in the sport, not just the shape of the car or going to some new place with an equally crap circuit as the one before.

 

[Scam]

Saw the full replay of this one rather than live.

Is it just me, or is anyone else finding the races burning this year?

I think the new regulations work in letting the cars get closer together, and the overtaking has been fine, so it's a bit strange that I'm just not finding the races particularly exciting.

I presume you meant boring? I dont find them boring but we did have a ridiculous amount of drama last season so it's understandable that the first few races with no championship on the line (yet) are not hitting quite as hard. Couple that with no Brits really up there yet (besides GR's podium last weekend) there's not much to root for. Probably also why Brit fans are relishing the Red Bull DNFs quite so much, too.

 

[jaybee]

Regarding getting rid of pitting under safety car:

Why does this keep coming up?
It was, it went down like a lead balloon and thus was scrapped

Got some more info on that? Can you link me to when this happened? I'd enjoy reading about it. Very surprised to hear it went down badly.

 

[CSMonkeh]

Regarding getting rid of pitting under safety car:



Got some more info on that? Can you link me to when this happened? I'd enjoy reading about it. Very surprised to hear it went down badly.

Watch the ‘08 Singapore GP (not for crashgate)
Even a very harsh penalty if you did pit; 10s stop-go if I remember rightly

 

[Mr Jack]

Is it just me, or is anyone else finding the races burning this year?

I think the new regulations work in letting the cars get closer together, and the overtaking has been fine, so it's a bit strange that I'm just not finding the races particularly exciting.

We've had horribly overpowered DRS at every race so far. That's made the overtaking much less interesting than it could be. Personally, I think the races have been pretty good so far, not classics, but tactically interesting and with enough surprises at every race. Much of that has come down to tyre uncertainty and safety cars.

 

[jaybee]

Watch the ‘08 Singapore GP (not for crashgate)
Even a very harsh penalty if you did pit; 10s stop-go if I remember rightly

Is that your version of it "going down like a lead balloon?". That was entirely different circumstances where cars had to come in to refuel. We wouldn't have any of that today and it would stop the lottery aspect of "free" pit stops.

 

[Mr Jack]

We wouldn't have any of that today and it would stop the lottery aspect of "free" pit stops.

And replace it with an equally arbitrary lottery where those have come in before the safety car get penalised far less than people who come in afterwards. A 25s pit stop taken immediately after a safety car will dump you right to the back of the field where it might have cost you 5 places before.

Honestly, I don't see why people want to take this interest out of the sport. The best sports have a strong element of managing risks, and reacting to unpredictable events. Safety cars, and pitting under SCs specifically, make F1 better not worse. Personally, I think it's a shame they didn't go with standing starts post-SC as they were talking about a couple of years back.

 

[CSMonkeh]

Is that your version of it "going down like a lead balloon?". That was entirely different circumstances where cars had to come in to refuel. We wouldn't have any of that today and it would stop the lottery aspect of "free" pit stops.

Also what happens if you enter pit lane just it closes? They supposed to bail out dangerously back onto the track?
Nowadays it’s only shut for obvious reasons such as a blockage (Brazil 2016, Italy 2020)

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I didn't think DRS was too overpowered here, not compared with Jeddah or Bahrain anyway.

We sort of have it now with the battery tech and overtake buttons but I much preferred the older KERS boost where you could use it anywhere for up to 6s per lap. None of this arbitrary "you can be faster from this point onward" DRS line nonsense.

 

[Mr Jack]

I didn't think DRS was too overpowered here, not compared with Jeddah or Bahrain anyway.

Russell was able to hold off Pérez until his team told him to surrender the place (or near as) which I don't think would have happened at the first two races, but we also so cars breezing past half way down the straight which, to me at least, says DRS was way overpowered.

 

[jaybee]

And replace it with an equally arbitrary lottery where those have come in before the safety car get penalised far less than people who come in afterwards. A 25s pit stop taken immediately after a safety car will dump you right to the back of the field where it might have cost you 5 places before.

Honestly, I don't see why people want to take this interest out of the sport. The best sports have a strong element of managing risks, and reacting to unpredictable events. Safety cars, and pitting under SCs specifically, make F1 better not worse. Personally, I think it's a shame they didn't go with standing starts post-SC as they were talking about a couple of years back.

It's not "managing risks" though is it. Go back to Abu Dhabi (briefly) ....there was nothing Merc could do in that situation and it favoured Redbull as they had nothing to lose taking the lottery gamble on coming in. That's not a situation we want to ever have as it's not fair.

We aren;t calling for just the pitting under safety car to be banned, although it's a start. What would be better - as I've said before - is changes introduced as a big bang approach to resolving all aspects of maintaining timings between all cars, when either a full SC, VSC or Red flag occurs. Basically make it fair. Make it so that when the leader has basically won the race and put the work in to get a 30 second lead, he should not have that wiped out where we realistically have the money and tech in F1 to prevent that.

There are a few ways we could look at doing this. I mean the current implementation of VSC does not work properly. We've seen that. The deltas are not perfectly kept and it can be a lottery with where you are on the track in an acceleration zone or corner. It needs work.

One possible idea could be to abolish VSC and full SC completely. Get them all to line up in the pits even with red flag restarts. Do not allow tyre changes and set them all off from the end of the pit lane with green lights that flash to the deltas earned through the earlier race. i.e. Green light flashes for P1, 5 seconds later for P2, etc etc. For instances where say 5 cars are all within a few tenths of each other in a train, make a mandatory release gap of say 1 second for safety. Whichever way we go I think nobody wants to watch cars following a safety car for 7 laps whilst we remove a parked F1 car completely off the racing line with a digger. Especially not 3 times a race plus VSC as well. There is room for improvement and new ideas to maintain deltas always.

 

[Mr Jack]

It's not "managing risks" though is it. Go back to Abu Dhabi (briefly) ....there was nothing Merc could do in that situation and it favoured Redbull as they had nothing to lose taking the lottery gamble on coming in. That's not a situation we want to ever have as it's not fair.

Well, no, there was: Mercedes made the tactical choice not to pit because they favoured track position over fresher tyres. That's the very definition of managing risk. What made AD bad was that the rules were ignored meaning that the judgement they made on managing risk wasn't honoured.

One possible idea could be to abolish VSC and full SC completely. Get them all to line up in the pits even with red flag restarts. Do not allow tyre changes and set them all off from the end of the pit lane with green lights that flash to the deltas earned through the earlier race. i.e. Green light flashes for P1, 5 seconds later for P2, etc etc. For instances where say 5 cars are all within a few tenths of each other in a train, make a mandatory release gap of say 1 second for safety.

I do not see why you want to remove this element of chance from the race. Without safety cars offering opportunities to buck the racing order and remove gaps, the races will be almost entirely processional.

Whichever way we go I think nobody wants to watch cars following a safety car for 7 laps whilst we remove a parked F1 car completely off the racing line with a digger. Especially not 3 times a race plus VSC as well. There is room for improvement and new ideas to maintain deltas always.

The time it takes to clear the cars isn't dependent on the SC, it's dependent on the time it takes to make the track safe for racing. Stopping the race won't help. And, in any case, incidents create natural breaks in the event where you can make a coffee, point Percy at the porcelain, grab another beer, or whatever. IMO, the only room for improvement is the time it takes to clear lapped cars, as previously discussed I think they should drop to the back and be credited laps rather than sent round and given time to catch up, it's these extra laps that stretch 3 lap SCs out to 5 lap ones.

 

[jaybee]

As ever with F1 you can see how polarising it is between fans/teams. Some people would happily see a reversed grid and stock car race rules. Other purists want to see a technical F1 which does not even take pity on overtaking being hard. Some would like to see DRS removed entirely. It's a balancing act. F1 seems to be going more down the entertainment bias route these days which is sad because it's not like they need more fans/interest/money. I think there's enough of that already.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

We've had horribly overpowered DRS at every race so far. That's made the overtaking much less interesting than it could be. Personally, I think the races have been pretty good so far, not classics, but tactically interesting and with enough surprises at every race. Much of that has come down to tyre uncertainty and safety cars.

DRS does seem to offer a greater advantage this season so far, though that could be down to it being easier to close up on the car in front due to the new aero regs. Only time and more data from other tracks will tell.

 

[Scam]

Make it so that when the leader has basically won the race and put the work in to get a 30 second lead, he should not have that wiped out where we realistically have the money and tech in F1 to prevent that.

Yeah this. As upsetting as AD was, the reality was that if the SC came out a lap or two before and the crash site was cleared then MV still would have pitted, we would have restarted exactly the same with no cars in-between them, and he would have got past Hamilton "fair and square"*.

It seems daft that a driver could dominate a race with a massive lead, then lose it all to a SC in the closing laps. I guess it will be "less bad" if P1 and P2 aren't a country mile ahead of every else like they were last year (i.e. giving P2 the free pit stop) but generally it seems daft that a SC just wipes out any advantage a driver (in any position actually) has built up.

What are the arguments against banning pit stops under the safety car?

 

[englishpremier]

DRS does seem to offer a greater advantage this season so far, though that could be down to it being easier to close up on the car in front due to the new aero regs. Only time and more data from other tracks will tell.

It was supposed to be less effective this year due to the smaller wings, and less reliance on aero from them. Not sure how that has borne out. Perhaps someone could look up at the average DRS speed vs non DRS speeds from this year to last if they are interested.

 

[Mr Jack]

Stroll is saying he doesn't understand why he was penalised for weaving. Pretty worrying that he's not grasped the rules.

 

[cuke2u]

Safety car situations like you describe are fact of all motorsport, not just F1. There is no other solution unfortunately as the safety of the marshal's has to be the most important option.
As far as pitting under a safety car is concerned this needs to take place as otherwise there could be cars out on track with either broken wings, or other body parts, or dangerously worn tyres.