*** Big Fat Weight Loss Thread ***

Caporegime
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Regarding the low carb stuff, everything I read about it makes so much sense but I just can't shift the feeling that eliminating an entire macronutrient can be healthy in the long term. It's why I stopped keto when I tried it even though I did feel brilliant once the initial fog lifted. I'd never felt so light on my feet, sustained energy throughout the day, zero bloating and lethargy, what was I saying again? :cry:

It's the non-essential one though. Carbohydrates offer nothing in the grand scheme of things. But never having bread ever again? Or a piece of birthday cake? Or an easter egg? It'd make me miserable as I love all food. But when I've shifted this last bit of weight, I don't intend going over 150g carbs daily. I keep this little chart tucked in my wallet as a reminder and hope it turns out to be true.

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Associate
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Oh I do agree and like I say so much of it makes sense however long term it would just be too restrictive for me personally. It's not something I'd be able to maintain throughout my whole life which is the exact reason I stopped it. I am very tempted to go back to trying a lower carb diet though as I have seen that picture before. At the moment I'm eating around 300g carbs a day and I'm always hungry! I just don't want to be in some kind of carb limbo especially as I want to improve my running and fitness. I suppose I'll never know unless I try for a few weeks though :)
 
Soldato
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Sorry to hear that also, it's great to hear that you are so determined to fix your health and not let it rule your life though.

Regarding the low carb stuff, everything I read about it makes so much sense but I just can't shift the feeling that eliminating an entire macronutrient can be healthy in the long term. It's why I stopped keto when I tried it even though I did feel brilliant once the initial fog lifted. I'd never felt so light on my feet, sustained energy throughout the day, zero bloating and lethargy, what was I saying again? :cry:

Thanks, I was genuinely starting to feel like I was dying at the end of of 2021. I want a long life, I want to grow old with my missus. I want to watch my daughters grow up and meet future grandkids if they have them. Not be dead before I'm 50. Besides, I'm not robbing myself of the chance to dance on the exes grave when she finally snuffs it, disabled or not lol :p kidding, mostly.

The thing with carbs is there's no such thing as an essential one! They literally do nothing but turn to sugars and unnecessarily bulk up your fecal matter. The conventional wisdom is that the brain needs the glucose to run. But that's just not correct, the brains preferred fuels are fat and ketones. Hence the clarity, it can use glucose but its not optimal.

Honestly if you think you felt good on low carb, wait until you go zero carb. The difference is stark.

Give it a shot for 45 days, I say that as the first two weeks are typically not super pleasant. For a few reasons, but the golden rule in those first two weeks is a simple one. Never trust a fart! This is the fat adaptation phase.

Then it's simple as hell, No sugar, No Carbs, No Plants & nothing artificial. You might not lose weight, you might even gain a few pounds at first but I promise you'll feel great. Then eat something from the standard Western diet and tell me how you feel. You won't want to go back.
 
Soldato
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I guess there are a couple of things that I struggle with here. Firstly that it's carbs that matter to weight loss, not calories. Secondly, that carbs are not a good way to get energy to your muscles for exercise?
 
Soldato
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First off I want to say congratulations on your progress its fantastic, keep up what is working for you.

I do feel however that while carnivore and no carb/low carb works for you, it isnt for everyone, especially depending on the stage they are at in their fat loss journey. Your in a position where you body can utilise energy from your own fat stores, but as you get further in to your journey and your fat stores drop further and further you might come to learn that carbs are a useful energy source.

Humans are omnivores, we are designed to eat carbs, utilise carbs, and work off them. Its why they are the easiest source of energy for the body to utilise, and everything, even fat gets metabolised in to carbs before the body burns it as energy.
 
Soldato
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@Syla5 thank you mate, but politely I must disagree with you entirely.

Let's take a look at some facts, first of all for the past 20 odd years geneticists have known that our lifespan should be approximately 120 years. That is, excluding things like injury or disease that's what we should all be living to. But the vast majority of us don't even get anywhere close to 100, with huge swathes of people going in there 60's and 70's for example. Also most of old people become incredibly frail etc in those latter stages of life. The question is why? Why are we not reaching our genetic potential and why are we all so sick? Could it be diet related?

I believe it is. There's absolutely zero doubt that over the millions of years of our evolution our species developed to become carnivore. We don't regrow our teeth like herbivores, and we're not capable of of using them to "mill" with our teeth like they do. Lock your teeth together and try moving your jaw side to side. You can't.

Then there's the fact that unlike every other animal that is supposed to eat plant matter, we don't have a secum. This renders over 90% of all plant matter indigestible/inedible to us. We did have a security but the appendix, a vestigial organ that serves no purpose in the body has all but evolved away and serves no function. Why would this happen over millions of years if our ancestors ate plants? It wouldn't.

Then consider that humans have stomach acid stronger than carrion animals like vultures, the fact that there are 4 organs in the body dedicated to the process of digesting, converting and processing of fats. Specifically for long chain fatty compounds which are only found in animals.

If then we we're supposed to be omnivore how did we survive the ice age as a species, when there where no plants? Why are there no cave paintings of fruits and vegetables? How is it that Innuits who still follow their Ancestral diets don't get malnourished and die? The masai don't typically eat plants, Ghengis Khan's entire army ate and drank horse meat and blood almost exclusively. Plains Indians and many other cultures do the same. Even Herodotos the ancient Greek historian has records of peoples claiming their civilisations ate nothing but meat and also lived longer. Dr Salisbury, creator of the Salisbury steak in the late 1800's did so after discovering that the people he was studying ate only meat and where healthier for longer. Not suffering any of the health conditions we typically suffered with in the west.

I could go on and on.

Then one of the first thing botanists learn is the toxicity of plants, all plants including fruit and vegetables. Nobody is arguing that they don't contain valuable nutrients but they also contain many other compounds that are toxic, carcinogenic or outright poisonous. Take tomatos, they belong in the deadly night shade group. Table mushrooms contain hundreds of known carcinogens. Yes we may have developed tolerances to such things but it doesn't mean it's good for us or that these things don't build up over time and kill us prematurely. Plants are trying to kill you, it's how they defend themselves.

Just because we can eat some of these things doesn't mean we should. We've just become used to doing so. I could go into the science of how carbs keep our insulin resistance up making us sick over time, or that they cause swelling and inflammation etc but I'd be here all week.

The point is, if we eat how we've evolved to eat we should all see greatly improved health as a minimum. I've never heard one carnivore ever say anything negative if they've been doing it properly and we're talking those who've been strict carnivore for 10years or more. There's simply no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. Ketones and fat are our bodies preferred fuel and energy sources and when eating a varied carnivore diet we get everything we need without need for supplementation.

My feeling great or having more energy may partly be coming from my fat stores, but then look at most carnivores who aren't as unwell as me with very little body fat and they feel even better than I do. I can even think of professional athletes who don't eat carbs.
 
Soldato
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You can disagree with me sure, but you cant with the science to be fair. This isnt to say that the carnivore diet doesnt work, its just that we shouldnt be anti carbs just because we like carnivore better. Carbs arent the mass evil some try and make them out to be, and infact a balanced diet of any kind can provide us with equal results all around.
 
Man of Honour
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I feel that most of todays health issues related to diet come mainly from the fact a lot of people in the modern world eat very little that resembles food found in nature. Most diets rely heavily on processed foods both carbohydrates and fat/protein.

Rather than because people eat too many plants.

Saying that I also believe that whatever works best for the person in question is the best lifestyle to live.
 
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Soldato
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Actually you can argue with the science when a lot of it has been bought and paid for by big business. Sugar companies for example have been verfiably proven to have bribed scientists, I believe in the 1960's to blame fat and not sugar for peoples drastically increasing obesity and health problems. One of these scientists became the head of the American medical association and continued to perpetuate this lie. They AMA eventually printed a retraction and the memos etc can be found online.
 
Caporegime
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It's very interesting. But the only thing that would concern me in this day and age is that we're not personally going out and killing these animals, fishing, etc. ourselves. Who knows what the heck is going on with antibiotics/hormones in the meat these days. I'd have to go organic for complete peace of mind and then it would cost an arm and a leg. Of course, I haven't been bothered so far but if that was to become the main part of the diet, I'd certainly think more about the source of the meat.
 
Soldato
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It's very interesting. But the only thing that would concern me in this day and age is that we're not personally going out and killing these animals, fishing, etc. ourselves. Who knows what the heck is going on with antibiotics/hormones in the meat these days. I'd have to go organic for complete peace of mind and then it would cost an arm and a leg. Of course, I haven't been bothered so far but if that was to become the main part of the diet, I'd certainly think more about the source of the meat.

We're quite fortunate in this country that our meat is a higher quality in general than say America, but you're right it's not perfect. That said, it's still far better for you than anything else. Though I do agree wit @tom_e that the removal of processed crap is a huge benefit to health.

It's actually cheaper than you might think, yes meat is expensive but when that's all your consuming, you need to eat less than you might think. The fat you need is usually free or very cheap and with not needing to buy anything else it won't cist you near as much as you expect.
 
Underboss
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I'm still bouncing around the 16st range so still a 3st loss but not fussed atm dropping further, my lifting strength is great at the moment so I'm going to hit my next 2 week strength cycle and then try another mini cut before my holiday in May to push into the 15s.

Chucked out all my old xxl/42" waist stuff this weekend and bought a load of L/XL/36" waist clothing, feels good, except on the wallet anyway.
 
Soldato
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Actually you can argue with the science when a lot of it has been bought and paid for by big business. Sugar companies for example have been verfiably proven to have bribed scientists, I believe in the 1960's to blame fat and not sugar for peoples drastically increasing obesity and health problems. One of these scientists became the head of the American medical association and continued to perpetuate this lie. They AMA eventually printed a retraction and the memos etc can be found online.
If you want to just look at the studies paid for by companies that will benefit from the results sure, but thats not what ive done, or those that I follow do either, so again, you really cant argue with the science.

You seem to be very anti anything else but carnivore and unwilling to keep an open mind on things. Its important to keep an open mind on this, especially because one option/path/plan might not (highly unlikely to) get you to your end goal. At which point what will you do?

Just because carnivore is working for you, doesn't mean it is the only thing that would work for you. Its working for you because you are in a calorie deficit, its the number 1 rule of losing weight, to do so you must be in a deficit. You feel better and more energised not just because you've changed your diet to carnivore, but because you changed your diet full stop. You are also probably moving more and reacting to the change positively.

Yeah its a little rough at first when everyone is eating chocolate and ice cream etc but take tonight when I ate something from the standard Western diet. I didn't enjoy it, it made me feel bloated and sluggish and like I had rocks in my stomach. A few hours later and I'm ravenous again. This is something I used to eat regularly and loved now it just made me feel like ****.
Im interested to know what exactly it was you had to eat from a western diet that made you feel this way, you mention it was something you used to eat, part of the diet that got you to the weight you hit before you made your changes, I wouldn't be surprised its made you feel this way, that's not a carb problem, that's a choice problem.

Over the last 3 weeks of my diet break eating at maintenance (with the aim not to lose weight) I've had plenty of treats, ice cream, fish and chips, chocolate brownies, Chinese takeaway, Indian takeaway, pizza, my first mars bar in ages. All in moderation and on no single occasion did i feel sluggish or have a rock hard stomach. In these last 3 weeks I've not gained a single bit of weight. Guess its all the evil poisnous carbs im eating that are keeping me healthy!
 
Soldato
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You seem to be very anti anything else but carnivore and unwilling to keep an open mind on things.

It does come across a little like he's trying to recruit us into a cult... :eek:

All in moderation and on no single occasion did i feel sluggish or have a rock hard stomach.

Likewise. I feel great these days too. Not that I eat loads of veg. I generally don't cut anything out, I just eat in moderation and control my calories.

Not that I'm trying to dissuade anyone. If it works for you, great! But I wouldn't generally push any one way of doing it onto someone. Different things work for different people. Just find what works for you :cool: (I think all of them will come down to a calorie deficit though)
 
Soldato
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Look, everyone is entitled to their opinions on this stuff and I'm certainly not trying to recruit anyone. The results speak for themselves. The issue here is that the conventional wisdom is currently enamoured with the calories in/calories out method. Much in the same way how doctors used to recommend smoking cigarettes it doesn't mean that they will always recommend the current models. The other huge issue is there's no long term scientific clinical setting studies into carnivore but then there isn't such studies for any diet. At a minimum you would need sets of identical twins from birth who never left the lab until death.

Simple fact is, science is slowly starting to catch on for example the recent study that showed keto is more effective at treating alzhiemers than any medication on the market. We're also starting to see more and more scientists and doctors promoting carnivore across the globe.

If something does go wrong for me eating this way then sure I'll rethink but nothing has led me to believe that I will.

What I can tell you with absolute certainty is I'm not moving anymore than I did before I started. Physically isn't possible for me. I also doubt, although I can't prove that I'm not in a calorie defecit. I may only eat once or twice in a day now but the sheer volume of meat and fat I consume in each meal is roughly 2lbs. I also only cook in animal fats, bacon grease and butter.

I've struggled with my weight since I was a child, I've also tried every conceivable diet with exercise when I was able-bodied and I've always failed. I've always been ravenous with a huge appetite and felt ill. Even on keto, while I lost weight I felt awful. Now I don't.

Oh the meal I ate was spag bol, something I've eaten thousands of times before and never felt that way.
 
Soldato
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The results speak for themselves.

Yes, I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't work. It was just suggested that it might not work for everyone and everyone needs to find what works for them. It has been suggested there is more than one way to achieve it and it just feels like you're trying to say this is the only way.

Again, I don't think anyone is saying your way is wrong, well done for what you've achieved. Others use different ways and that's fine too.

To me personally, it doesn't seem logical to eat calorie-dense foods. I try and do the opposite. It makes sense to me that you feel full when your stomach fills up, not when you eat a certain amount of calories. I also seem to get hungry 2 hours after eating, almost no matter what I've eaten... :(
 
Soldato
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Yes, I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't work. It was just suggested that it might not work for everyone and everyone needs to find what works for them. It has been suggested there is more than one way to achieve it and it just feels like you're trying to say this is the only way.

Again, I don't think anyone is saying your way is wrong, well done for what you've achieved. Others use different ways and that's fine too.

To me personally, it doesn't seem logical to eat calorie-dense foods. I try and do the opposite. It makes sense to me that you feel full when your stomach fills up, not when you eat a certain amount of calories. I also seem to get hungry 2 hours after eating, almost no matter what I've eaten... :(

That's totally fine mate, and if I'm not being clear I apologise. I'm not suggesting that this is the only way just that from the studying I've done I believe it's the best way and I've tried to share some information. People can and should do whatever they feel is best. I do believe that if people gave it 45 days though they'd agree with me lol

There's a reason why you're always feeling hungry pal, I was exactly the same. I think it's got something to do with hormone receptors and insulin but I'm not sure off the top of my head. Can say I can guarantee you won't be hungry in 2hrs eating like I do and I just listen to my body.
 
Soldato
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The issue here is that the conventional wisdom is currently enamoured with the calories in/calories out method.
I hate to break it to you but the only reason you are losing weight is because of exactly this, you are now eating in a calorie deficit. The mechanism you are using to achieve this is the carnivore diet, which is working for you and that’s awesome, however you aren’t breaking the laws of thermodynamics I’m affraid!

Also very much doubt you aren’t moving around more, the shear fact you weigh less and are way less sluggish will be an indicate that your NEAT activity is up.
 
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