Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

MCFC_ANDY said:
its not to do with believing its more to practice what you preach for those in general, folk get more respect when they practice what they preach, when you see these so called eco warriors going off in gas guzzling planes to conferences when video calling would do as well, or those off to protest in diesel buses, lorries etc, thats all us common folk think, is hypocrites. the vast majority of the public wont take these folk seriously when then do these things.

these are trying times, the first thought should be to protect your family and then to others less fortunate who will going to suffer if not die this winter, and myself will try everything and anything to help those folk
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for years I have whined at my bosses for going abroad for meetings. if 1 good thing has come out of the pandemic it is it has proven that zoom meetings can work. I am a monkey however and the organ grinders don't really care
 
bigmike20vt said:
for years I have whined at my bosses for going abroad for meetings. if 1 good thing has come out of the pandemic it is it has proven that zoom meetings can work. I am a monkey however and the organ grinders don't really care
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indeed know the feeling, but enjoyed the debate, thats whats great about here, freedom to express opinion, thats one thing we all should value, might not agree, that time fashioned phrase, i agree to disagree:)
 
not sure if my maths checks out, but given the new price cap, it works out around 5 years until a full solar panel setup on a 3 bed semi will pay itself off...
 
big_bars said:
not sure if my maths checks out, but given the new price cap, it works out around 5 years until a full solar panel setup on a 3 bed semi will pay itself off...
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The trouble is the people who are struggle to pay bills are unlikely have the upfront funds for a solar set up.
 
Joxeon said:
The trouble is the people who are struggle to pay bills are unlikely have the upfront funds for a solar set up.
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indeed. I have no idea of the logistics but on the surface at least it would make sense for the government to pay for panels to be put on all houses where people claim benefits....... maybe let the Tennant's / owners have a few pennies off their kw/h energy bill and the government take the rest of the money. not sure how feasible it would be with energy companies being privatised but.... am I right in saying bulb are now essentially nationalised now? if so they could start with bulb.cistomers.

I am probably talking crap. but my point is sooner or later solar pays for itself. it's a given, so as a long term investment it would be an easy win for the government over a 10 year period. they get their money back in the end and it increases.renewable energy.

maybe trial it in a few councils as part of that levelling up claims.
 
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Goodie said:
wasn't there some daft stat that for the price of HS2 we could have fully covered solar installs for all residential properties in the country?
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HS2 is a disgrace. we need better infrastructure no doubt.... but rather than spending all that money just to shave a few mins off a train to London that money could make modest improvements to the entire.infrastructire country wide.
I am gonna show my bias here because boy. I angry how our rail has been treated. privatising vital public services does not work.
lines which don't operate at profit get butcherd .prices are insane (single occupancy car from Cambridge to my parents in North West is half the price of a train and on top of that is quicker) and on top of that we still get to foot the bill on the rail network itself. talk about us having all the sticks and no carrots.

and I do resent our tax money going into it when it isn't nationalised and some asshat gets a massive bonus even when the service is going to hell
 
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200sols said:
Still polluting the rivers and seas with raw sewage still not fixing leaks.
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Its not perfect sure, but your bills haven't tripled in the space of 6 months have they.


Darujhistan said:
Minimum investement they can get away with, maximum profit.
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I work in the sector and genuinely that isn't the case. In all cases companies bid for more expenditure allowance than the regulator will allow at the five yearly price reviews. The regulator's view - customer protection.


Im not saying water companies don't make profits - of course they do. And they have some things to improve. But critically the framework of how the sector operates does protect customers, that is the fundamental difference between energy and water. Energy is not quite as critical as water in terms of survival, but its pretty close. Interesting that under Corbyn's nationalisation policy he wanted to do water first. Why, when we can all now see the issue is with energy? Energy is an absolute shocker of a failure, and people are waking up to it now.
 
It will get better, renewables are now cheaper that all fossils. In the US of all places, renewables went under the cost of coal in 2018.
What we need is more and more and faster and faster.

We do need some controls on domestic energy exportation and i suspect it could be a real vote winner if Ukraine is still ongoing close to the next election.
The UK should be quite energy efficient but our full capitalist free market approach means we pay full market rate even if its produced in the UK, compare to France with their part state ownership model on electric.

We also need lots of nuclear, its expensive, but it create a superb baseload so the variability of renewables with smart pricing means we should be able to cope. Assuming various degrees of storage come alongside which they will.

The government has to have the balls to make the longer term decisions on climate change. people will shout and scream, but putting that sort of thing into the hands of the public will always see ultra short termism and we would be royally screwed that way.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
It will get better, renewables are now cheaper that all fossils. In the US of all places, renewables went under the cost of coal in 2018.
What we need is more and more and faster and faster.

We do need some controls on domestic energy exportation and i suspect it could be a real vote winner if Ukraine is still ongoing close to the next election.
The UK should be quite energy efficient but our full capitalist free market approach means we pay full market rate even if its produced in the UK, compare to France with their part state ownership model on electric.

We also need lots of nuclear, its expensive, but it create a superb baseload so the variability of renewables with smart pricing means we should be able to cope. Assuming various degrees of storage come alongside which they will.

The government has to have the balls to make the longer term decisions on climate change. people will shout and scream, but putting that sort of thing into the hands of the public will always see ultra short termism and we would be royally screwed that way.
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Just on the climate change stuff - we should be making progress on this when there is spare money around, i.e when times are good. When times are bad like they are now, we have to cut back on it nationally, just the same as people are having to cut back on their personal pet projects and go back to basics.

Eventually we will make progress and be more resilient, but it can't be forced in at any cost.
 
danlightbulb said:
Energy is an absolute shocker of a failure, and people are waking up to it now.
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Yes. You could see it coming but the last year has really made the regular person stand and take note. The thing is we are still too slow to react and the short termism is coming to bite us. These silly band aid gestures from the government are not going to tackle the issue unless you roll up the sleeves and take it head on.
 
danlightbulb said:
Just on the climate change stuff - we should be making progress on this when there is spare money around, i.e when times are good. When times are bad like they are now, we have to cut back on it nationally, just the same as people are having to cut back on their personal pet projects and go back to basics.

Eventually we will make progress and be more resilient, but it can't be forced in at any cost.
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I would have fully agreed with you 30 years ago. maybe it is still the case now, but I fear it may be too late. worse still for all I know it may be too late regardless. I really hope not. believe it or not I am usually a glass half full kind of person .
 
bigmike20vt said:
I would have fully agreed with you 30 years ago. maybe it is still the case now, but I fear it may be too late. worse still for all I know it may be too late regardless. I really hope not. believe it or not I am usually a glass half full kind of person .
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I genuinely don't believe its too late. And I don't believe postponing things ten or twenty years will hurt anything either. Yes, climate change needs to be tackled, and we need to develop cleaner sources of energy just because that is the right thing to do, but its certainly not an urgent matter that has to be dealt with super quick, especially when our small country will only make a slight difference anyway.

The reason that we are trying to move so fast on this is because of money - there is money available and people are making careers out of pushing for and getting that money.

Lets slow down, stabilise things, and then move forward with a long term, planned strategy over a 100 year period. If all countries did that, we'd be ok. If we do it on our own, keep scrabbling for crumbs of money and not having a joined up plan, then it won't make a blind bit of difference.

There is more money in chaos than there is in having a long term plan, and people in charge only care about their retirement plans.
 
MCFC_ANDY said:
there are mothballed coalpits that can be reactivated easily and quick, but the green lobby will be up in arms, same goes for fracking although that would take a yr at least to come on stream, but same again, its this drive to net zero as wll, its being done to fast, needs to be slowed and lets get ourself energy sufficient first
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Why is everyone scared of the green lobby?
 
danlightbulb said:
Lets slow down, stabilise things, and then move forward with a long term, planned strategy over a 100 year period. If all countries did that, we'd be ok. If we do it on our own, keep scrabbling for crumbs of money and not having a joined up plan, then it won't make a blind bit of difference.
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The thing is, we don't have 100 years. Will the planet still be here? Of course. Will humans still be able to live on it? Of course. Will we have irreparably damaged the ecosystem to the point where anything we do will require insane action or simply be impossible. Probably.

People are missing the fact that global warming isn't just more extreme weather causing drought and dramatic climate change, its the acidification of the oceans, rising sea levels. Thats ignoring the fact that resource scarcity will inevitably lead to wars.

The stupid thing is that the cost of living with these changes will absolutely dwarf any savings we make by kicking the can down the road. Its OK though because that can is someone elses money and problem.
 
danlightbulb said:
I genuinely don't believe its too late. And I don't believe postponing things ten or twenty years will hurt anything either. Yes, climate change needs to be tackled, and we need to develop cleaner sources of energy just because that is the right thing to do, but its certainly not an urgent matter that has to be dealt with super quick, especially when our small country will only make a slight difference anyway.

The reason that we are trying to move so fast on this is because of money - there is money available and people are making careers out of pushing for and getting that money.

Lets slow down, stabilise things, and then move forward with a long term, planned strategy over a 100 year period. If all countries did that, we'd be ok. If we do it on our own, keep scrabbling for crumbs of money and not having a joined up plan, then it won't make a blind bit of difference.

There is more money in chaos than there is in having a long term plan, and people in charge only care about their retirement plans.
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Sorry totally disagree, 100 years will be too late
Same thing again see, kick the can make it someone elses problem at a later date
 
413x said:
We couldn't get green energy properly out there when times were good. It's never going to get there.

I certainly wouldn't want to be a kid now!

If we had good green solutions in place we wouldn't be in this mess.
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Isnt renewables also priced high, because its a global market?
You putting ideology above reality right now. There is a time and place for putting focus on things like green levies, telling people they need to sit in a dark freezing cold house so in 30 years we have more wind power isnt going to go down well. The kids to have that better future you talk about first have to survive and live those years.
Also temporarily turning coal back on to tie us over until the nuclear stuff comes online isnt abandoning the long term target, its just helping us prop up that bridge to get there.
 
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