Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Forgive me but I don't get how it doens't penalise anyone who works? (among others)
Finish work at 5PM, get home by 5:30PM you want to relax after a long day but you have to wait till 11PM otherwise you have expensive rates, by that point you will be going to bed though. How doesn't that penalise normal people? Peak times are well....peak for a reason.

Solar is stupid expensive so a battery/panels isn't viable for the majority of people.

Its not unfairly penalising someone to pay market rate when the market rate is variable, and they want to use significant energy when the grid pricing is high. Thats not unfair its quite reasonable.
Right now if someone is a massive consumer of electricity during peak they are in effect being subsidised by everyone else that isn't as the grid scales up and brings online very expensive extra capacity, but everyone in effect shares out the cost.

The 11 oclock thing is nonsense. The peak window is much shorter than that. And no one is saying dont use any energy then, but for example putting the dishwasher on and the washing machine etc at that time would be very uneconomical than deferring that until later.
If you take a look at Octopus Agile you can see the peak window varies by day and time, bear in mind these prices are not equivalent to "normal tariffs" right now as they are now working on a higher capped price more in line with expected Oct cap.

You can see how they vary. This is Eastern area, obviously all areas vary slightly.
There is historical data available for 30 minute windows, by area since Agile incepted if you want to see how it functioned pre energy price explosion (it was more logical and obvious then how moving usage off peak was highly beneficial)

2022-09-06 00:00:00	47.47
2022-09-06 00:30:00	47.47
2022-09-06 01:00:00	45.20
2022-09-06 01:30:00	47.37
2022-09-06 02:00:00	46.13
2022-09-06 02:30:00	42.07
2022-09-06 03:00:00	48.51
2022-09-06 03:30:00	46.46
2022-09-06 04:00:00	55.13
2022-09-06 04:30:00	52.92
2022-09-06 05:00:00	50.10
2022-09-06 05:30:00	60.20
2022-09-06 06:00:00	65.01
2022-09-06 06:30:00	71.44
2022-09-06 07:00:00	72.41
2022-09-06 07:30:00	77.99
2022-09-06 08:00:00	77.99
2022-09-06 08:30:00	77.99
2022-09-06 09:00:00	75.94
2022-09-06 09:30:00	70.56
2022-09-06 10:00:00	59.98
2022-09-06 10:30:00	55.13
2022-09-06 11:00:00	57.55
2022-09-06 11:30:00	57.15
2022-09-06 12:00:00	55.57
2022-09-06 12:30:00	51.00
2022-09-06 13:00:00	55.13
2022-09-06 13:30:00	50.80
2022-09-06 14:00:00	67.65
2022-09-06 14:30:00	64.21
2022-09-06 15:00:00	72.10
2022-09-06 15:30:00	74.97
2022-09-06 16:00:00	77.99
2022-09-06 16:30:00	77.99
2022-09-06 17:00:00	77.99
2022-09-06 17:30:00	77.99
2022-09-06 18:00:00	77.99
2022-09-06 18:30:00	77.99
2022-09-06 19:00:00	77.99
2022-09-06 19:30:00	77.99
2022-09-06 20:00:00	77.99
2022-09-06 20:30:00	65.01
2022-09-06 21:00:00	71.66
2022-09-06 21:30:00	55.74
2022-09-06 22:00:00	55.04
2022-09-06 22:30:00	33.08
2022-09-06 23:00:00	47.19
2022-09-06 23:30:00	42.74

 

[bigmike20vt]

Works if you can afford solar & battery otherwise unfairly penalises working families. Imagine having to not feed your family until the cheap rate kicks in at 11pm

TBH other than at weekends my food prep was all done peak time but my Go Faster still benefitted me. (almost) all washing machines, dishwashers, tumble dryers have a timer on them and having a shower before bed may be a minor lifestyle change but nothing major.
I have a house battery now so really benefit from it but for 6 months I didn't and still saved. 75p peak tho. that was pure BS and I would not entertain it at that.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Huh?

How can you accuse someone as being inflexible and bloody minded simply because they work a 9-5 M-F and therefore use energy at peak times?

If someone finishes work at 5, are you.suggesting they wait until, say 10pm, to turn their heating on and start cooking their evening meal or turning on the TV?

Tell me I have picked you up wrong here.

We all use some energy at peak times, the point to moving to on demand is it encourages people to move unnecessary usage to off peak times.
Right now there is no benefit to deferring usage, so we could all put the cooker on, dishwasher, oven etc at the same time and not care. Apart from as a whole we are costing ourselves more as more expensive generation comes online to meet the peak.
If there was on demand pricing, logical people would only use the cooker then, and wait till pricing drops for the other items.

This reduces demand at the peak and leads to lower pricing and better grid balancing.

So its not about using no energy, its about only using the energy at that point that you need to use.

 

[MatsyLR]

We all use some energy at peak times, the point to moving to on demand is it encourages people to move unnecessary usage to off peak times.
Right now there is no benefit to deferring usage, so we could all put the cooker on, dishwasher, oven etc at the same time and not care. Apart from as a whole we are costing ourselves more as more expensive generation comes online to meet the peak.
If there was on demand pricing, logical people would only use the cooker then, and wait till pricing drops for the other items.

This reduces demand at the peak and leads to lower pricing and better grid balancing.

So its not about using no energy, its about only using the energy at that point that you need to use.

For me the only thing I could move is when to put the cloths wash on but then how would I dry? Leave cloths in the wash all night to go smelly? No dryer, don't use dishwasher, I'm not cooking after 9 when I'm in bed. All my usage after work is done between 5:30pm and 10pm. That usage for the most part is PC, TV and kitchen appliances (air fryer/microwave) Cloths washing is done at the weekend when I'm at home.

I literally can't move anything.

 

[Surveyor]

If we're playing the linking game then:

Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

Not to mention that any "fixed contract" is a "hedged bet" against the idea of increasing prices.. It is a gamble.. Way too many people are being self-centered and assuming that a fixed price contract should ONLY apply when the fixed price if it's lower than current market rates. You win some...

forums.overclockers.co.uk

You've gone from believing to certainty to imagining. Final answer?

 

[HungryHippos]

You've gone from believing to certainty to imagining. Final answer?

This is incredibly dull.

You must be a lot of fun at parties.

 

[chrcoluk]

Huh?

How can you accuse someone as being inflexible and bloody minded simply because they work a 9-5 M-F and therefore use energy at peak times?

If someone finishes work at 5, are you.suggesting they wait until, say 10pm, to turn their heating on and start cooking their evening meal or turning on the TV?

Tell me I have picked you up wrong here.

The way i see it you still live as before, you just dont get the off peak discounted energy. I dont think they should deliberately add a premium to peak time energy, just discount when its cheaper, so in theory you wouldnt be paying any more than you would be paying without TOU.

Although recently all current smart meter TOU tariffs like GO and Agile have usually been more competitive than Fixed, but I think thats just Octopus been more lazy to update them or potential subsidy to encourage people on smart meters.

TOU tariffs might even make peak time energy cheaper as they should reduce peak time demand.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

For me the only thing I could move is when to put the cloths wash on but then how would I dry? No dryer, don't use dishwasher, I'm not cooking after 9 when I'm in bed. All my usage after work is done between 5:30pm and 10pm. Usually the wash is done at the weekend when I'm at home.

I literally can't move anything.

If your in bed by 9 surely your getting up very early, so have washer on timed to finish by. 6? and hang it out then.

Its not about moving all or even most demand away from the peaks, its about moving some. For some people it wont work, but for many it can, either partially or heavily, as such encouraging everyone to do their bit by charging what it costs us to have in generated means you should see the peak fall off, and as such the costs in total being lower as less expensive generation is fired up to meet the peak demand. Especially as we move to more renewables which will be more variable. If its a very windy sunny day there will be lots of generation, lower pricing and great day to do the things like washing etc. If its a still and cloudy day the generation will be forced to more expensive means, such as fossils, and as such if your pricing reflects that you would, or many would, go ok electricity is bonkers expensive today, I will do the washing tomorrow when the pricing is sensible again.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

The way i see it you still live as before, you just dont get the discounted energy.

Thats pretty much how I see it panning out medium/long term when high peak users wont in effect be getting subsidised by on demand priced customers.

 

[Richie]

Thats pretty much how I see it panning out medium/long term when high peak users wont in effect be getting subsidised by on demand priced customers.

Be good if this worked for Standing Charge... The heavy users paying more to maintain the network than the light users do given that they use it more...

 

[Surveyor]

You must be a lot of fun at parties.

Thanks.

 

[LabR@t]

Its not unfairly penalising someone to pay market rate when the market rate is variable, and they want to use significant energy when the grid pricing is high. Thats not unfair its quite reasonable.
Right now if someone is a massive consumer of electricity during peak they are in effect being subsidised by everyone else that isn't as the grid scales up and brings online very expensive extra capacity, but everyone in effect shares out the cost.

The 11 oclock thing is nonsense. The peak window is much shorter than that. And no one is saying dont use any energy then, but for example putting the dishwasher on and the washing machine etc at that time would be very uneconomical than deferring that until later.
If you take a look at Octopus Agile you can see the peak window varies by day and time, bear in mind these prices are not equivalent to "normal tariffs" right now as they are now working on a higher capped price more in line with expected Oct cap.

You can see how they vary. This is Eastern area, obviously all areas vary slightly.
There is historical data available for 30 minute windows, by area since Agile incepted if you want to see how it functioned pre energy price explosion (it was more logical and obvious then how moving usage off peak was highly beneficial)

2022-09-06 00:00:00	47.47
2022-09-06 00:30:00	47.47
2022-09-06 01:00:00	45.20
2022-09-06 01:30:00	47.37
2022-09-06 02:00:00	46.13
2022-09-06 02:30:00	42.07
2022-09-06 03:00:00	48.51
2022-09-06 03:30:00	46.46
2022-09-06 04:00:00	55.13
2022-09-06 04:30:00	52.92
2022-09-06 05:00:00	50.10
2022-09-06 05:30:00	60.20
2022-09-06 06:00:00	65.01
2022-09-06 06:30:00	71.44
2022-09-06 07:00:00	72.41
2022-09-06 07:30:00	77.99
2022-09-06 08:00:00	77.99
2022-09-06 08:30:00	77.99
2022-09-06 09:00:00	75.94
2022-09-06 09:30:00	70.56
2022-09-06 10:00:00	59.98
2022-09-06 10:30:00	55.13
2022-09-06 11:00:00	57.55
2022-09-06 11:30:00	57.15
2022-09-06 12:00:00	55.57
2022-09-06 12:30:00	51.00
2022-09-06 13:00:00	55.13
2022-09-06 13:30:00	50.80
2022-09-06 14:00:00	67.65
2022-09-06 14:30:00	64.21
2022-09-06 15:00:00	72.10
2022-09-06 15:30:00	74.97
2022-09-06 16:00:00	77.99
2022-09-06 16:30:00	77.99
2022-09-06 17:00:00	77.99
2022-09-06 17:30:00	77.99
2022-09-06 18:00:00	77.99
2022-09-06 18:30:00	77.99
2022-09-06 19:00:00	77.99
2022-09-06 19:30:00	77.99
2022-09-06 20:00:00	77.99
2022-09-06 20:30:00	65.01
2022-09-06 21:00:00	71.66
2022-09-06 21:30:00	55.74
2022-09-06 22:00:00	55.04
2022-09-06 22:30:00	33.08
2022-09-06 23:00:00	47.19
2022-09-06 23:30:00	42.74

4pm to 9pm


Ok I can feed the kids at 9pm then? I exaggerate but many can't move much to run during the night, possible, plus there there are fire risks running unattended appliances during the night

If you have invested in a battery or can afford an electric car your saving, otherwise it's going to be minimal.

 

[LabR@t]

Be good if this worked for Standing Charge... The heavy users paying more to maintain the network than the light users do given that they use it more...

Lol using more electric doesn't wear it or more. It's fair for everyone to pay their share.

 

[robgmun]

Consume less, realise the earths resources are finite, wear a jumper.

Talking to everyone i know, a vast majority of people have already cut their energy usage to the bone. Blindly peddling this phase isn't going to stop people from starving

 

[LabR@t]

Talking to everyone i know, a vast majority of people have already cut their energy usage to the bone. Blindly peddling this phase isn't going to stop people from starving

The next logical step is cannibalism.

 

[robgmun]

Email from Ovo today saying they're going to double my DD.....when I'm already several hundred pounds in credit....trying to switch to pay what I use....

Just call them and refuse the rise, I don't think they can set a new DD level without your consent. I think the energy companies sees silence as consent so you have to actively call up and refuse.

 

[theone8181]

lol? A year ago the cap was £1200

In the grand scheme of things, I'd rather pay 2.5k than 7k.

 

[Richie]

Lol using more electric doesn't wear it or more. It's fair for everyone to pay their share.

ummm... I didn't say higher use wore it out more... I'm also referring to both gas and electric, not just electric.

Trying to dismiss my point by twisting what I say into something I didn't say in order to make it/me look silly is just.... Well, silly

 

[bigmike20vt]

4pm to 9pm


Ok I can feed the kids at 9pm then? I exaggerate but many can't move much to run during the night, possible, plus there there are fire risks running unattended appliances during the night

If you have invested in a battery or can afford an electric car your saving, otherwise it's going to be minimal.

I think you are missing the big picture. it isn't about what you can do individually. but there are 10s of 10000s who WILL be able to offset some of their energy use but who on a single rate tariff just don't. even if you can't change your use 1 bit, if those who can do then it will still help smooth the demand curve and that will then help everyone even those who can't.

also medium term many of us will be ditching gas heating. things like heating the water in a water tank (really well insulated) off peak will give enough hot water for the next day but cost much less to heat. Showers I already mentioned and almost everyone (adult) can make sure they shower off peak .
I have discovered the joy of a slow cooker. one cook up can do 10 meals which can go in a freezer. these are great for over night cooking.

 

[Doobedoo]

Economy 7 has been a thing for decades. People have been incentivised to shift their use to when demand is low. All my washing, dishwashing and hot water is all time shifted to be done overnight when it’s cheaper.