Distasteful vegan TV ad

[MattTheTall77]

How do vegans feel about honey?

I think general consensus is not to eat it. I’m not sure what harm there is in the production or taking of honey, but I never liked it so never really looked into it when eating meat, vegetarian or now.

 

[lovelyhead]

Rspca marks and the like aren't really worth much. Intensive farming is cruel. There's no getting away from that.

People sit at different points, some people know and don't care, others kind of feel bad, but turn a blind eye to it, some people reduce and that's good enough for them.
Some people go all the way.


Its Interesting reading the views in here. It's no different to what you can expect from a vegan vs meat eater thread.


I do find it odd that some people seem to think/pretend that factory/intensive farming isn't that bad for animal welfare. Because that is delusional.
If people accept a certain level or cruelty is OK, I kind of accept that more. As it is, at least, the truth.


Maybe people get antsy about it as they know its bad, we generally like to think. Of ourselves as good/animal lovers.. So being presented with the real life situation of eating factory farmed animals feels like an attack? So. Reasons to bypass accepting cruelty are reached for?

Spot on.

 

[robfosters]

The mere notion of raising an animal to be killed for food is cruel, so yes, I guess I’m happy with it

 

[MattTheTall77]

Hitler was a vegetarian.

Just read the below which was funny:

Hitler's vegetarianism has been attributed to ideological reasons, but it also may have been motivated by his belief that a meatless diet would relieve his chronic flatulence and constipation. By the end of WWII, Hitler ate only mashed potatoes and clear broth.

No wonder he went on a rampage

 

[inogen]

Humans are carnivores yes. You can do whatever you want but the optimal diet for a human being is meat.
A meat based diet cures diabetes, obesity, heart disease etc. etc.

Consuming large amounts of vegetables only really came about a couple of thousand years ago, for most of our history we've subsisted on predominantly meat.

You only have to walk down the street to see what a diet containing large amounts of plant products does to the human race.

i can see where you‘re coming from but just have a think about it. Humans were hunter-gatherers. They hunted animals for food and materials. They gathered what grew for food and materials.

how and why would early man even consider that “meat is the optimal diet”? They’d just gather and hunt what most easily available and what they needed. Hunting anything involves a lot more effort and danger than picking berries and digging for roots. No-one has ever thought, yaknow what, sod that apple tree, get the spears out, i‘m going hunting, not unless they’re doing it for sport. Hunting apples does not involve sharp things and do not run away. Hunting animals by comparison, even in terms of energy expended/reward is a risky endeavour by comparison.

So we’ve evolved with guts and bacteria that require plant fibre to thrive. We’re completely different to actual obligate carnivores like cats in that regard.

I think you’re right about some ”plant based“ food though. Anything that is highly processed is going to cause problems if over-consumed. Plant or meat.

 

[jigger]

Just read the below which was funny:


No wonder he went on a rampage

Definitely seems to be a correlation between diet a social attitudes. Probably a PhD in this for someone.

 

[edGfaCTor]

I'm fairly sure this isn't true.
Humans would have had a mixed diet. If fruit and greens were available, these would be consumed. If meat was, this would be. Chimps diet is very omnivorous.

And health side of things?... There's plenty Of literature in that. Eating an entirely meat based diet? That's not going to end well.

You are wrong

Why are you trying to argue something which has been proven by different fields of science.

It is only modern science which has changed it's tune for £££ reasons

Fruit/veg are seasonal and can only grow naturally in set climates etc.

We are not chimps why do people who do not know what they are talking about come out with this same nonsense.

Provide one proper controlled study which shows a person who eats a meat only diet "not going to end well" I already know you can't.

 

[Richie]

Its not a few bad apples, the entire orchard is rotten, (most animals are factory farmed) if it was the occasional farm there would be barely any footage available of animals being abused and neglected but this isn't the case.

Yes of course animal rights activists have an agenda, the agenda is to expose what goes on in animal agriculture so people can make informed choices, you wont see pictures of pigs being suffocated on packs of bacon will you because that might blow apart the "humane slaughter" myth that's been allowed to spread.

RSPCA is actually a worthless organisation, they care about cats and dogs, I only posted it because it was a way of getting some of the truth to you with you crying about "agendas".

I dont know how many times I have to say this, its not a personal choice when there's a victim, billions of victims in fact, trillions if we include fish and other marine life.

I bet you havent even watched the documentary I posted.

All this and you still evaded 2 direct questions specifically asked of you for the 2nd time around... The only part you actually cut out of my entire quote...Are you deliberately evading them?

Once you answer them, I will address your points above. Discussion is a 2 way street

 

[Removed User 345456]

TBH I've never met a vegan that matches the online stereotype...

One of my best mates is vegan, he actually recommended me to do keto when I was trying to loose weight - he'd done it previously for years and tried many diets (as he likes to experience new foods/into fitness etc) and eventually tried vegan and went the full hog/clothing etc etc...
His missus and kids eat meat, he has zero issues with it and even lets them/me cook meat in his house - something I really didn't feel fair doing but he insisted as he doesn't push his views on anyone...

He grew up working in his Dad's butcher shop and I think in the back of his mind he's always felt bad about that, and like anyone loves animals, he just see's what he's doing as having a clean conscious, and I fully respect that he's doing his bit/not being part of something that harms things he loves/respects.

He'll often make funny comments about missing X food etc and never denies how nice meat or meat based products taste. He just does his bit and is content with that, I fully respect that.

He even took me for a Burger King the other day and I said I'll try what you're having and he was like no I want you to have what you want to have/normally have.

I wish I could, but I really do not get on with carbs/leave me constantly hungry and makes my skin really bad.
Meat does genuinely seem to help me against inflammation and other strength based attributes and doing a 24 hour intermittent fast doing one meal a day keto seems to do wonders for me, I've literally have extensive blood work/doctors check ups/hospitals etc etc prove how well I am since doing keto (as I was around 9 months in when I happened to be having a check up for something else that required blood tests etc etc and they found nothing and were very impressed with my health at the time) Vegan keto is an option but I genuinely do not like any of the food on the menu so doesn't really leave me with much, I really enjoy the strict 'you can't F this up' factor of keto, as if you cheat you kick yourself out of ketosis and cost yourself 5-12 days to be back into ketosis again thus throwing away all the hard work, and usually causes very explosive toilet fun Thus you stay in very good shape and don't get fat and it requires zero exercise to loose mass amounts of weight (should you want to) and you can maintain your current weight just as easy.

Out of the choice of having bland water filled tasteless empty salads/veg with boring dry water filled skinless boneless chicken etc on a healthy carb diet vs having fatty meats on keto and cheese etc etc whilst loosing weight/staying in shape/having loads of energy in reserve vs crashing every couple of hours on carbs, I know which works for my body, but everyone's different.

But yeah what a legend right, talk about unbiased, literally recommending me to eat meat for the purpose of what I wanted to achieve vs pushing views on me, I like the fact he doesn't resent anyone he knows for doing their own thing, he just 'does his bit' and is happy about that, he also has no issue eating vegan from somewhere where meat has also been prepared. I think his attitude is the best way to be, don't push your S on other people, respect everyone is different, support your friends regardless without harboring secret anger issues.

However people that do the following (if they exist in real life away from youtube etc) are pathetic

 

[Diddums]

You are wrong

Why are you trying to argue something which has been proven by different fields of science.

It is only modern science which has changed it's tune for £££ reasons

Fruit/veg are seasonal and can only grow naturally in set climates etc.

We are not chimps why do people who do not know what they are talking about come out with this same nonsense.

Provide one proper controlled study which shows a person who eats a meat only diet "not going to end well" I already know you can't.

I'm the most carnivorous mofo on these boards and even I'll say that as human, we were probably never meant to be meat eaters. We evolved in to them, likely due to necessity, but look at the animal kingdom, no meat eating animals have our grindy molars, they all have incisors very clearly made for tearing meat.

Of course this will never be more than a hunch as we've eaten meat for as long we we can remember.

 

[andybird123]

i can see where you‘re coming from but just have a think about it. Humans were hunter-gatherers. They hunted animals for food and materials. They gathered what grew for food and materials.

how and why would early man even consider that “meat is the optimal diet”?

So we’ve evolved with guts and bacteria that require plant fibre to thrive. We’re completely different to actual obligate carnivores like cats in that regard.

a couple of things - carnivore diet humans have tested their microbiome as being healthy - equal to or better than people eating a "healthy balanced diet" - the bacteria required for dealing with fibrous foods does not die off when consuming a carnivore diet so you retain that capability if the need arises - junk food based diets do destroy the microbiome though, so no they do not "require" plant fibre to thrive

For 2 million years, humans ate meat and little else — study

Tel Aviv University researchers says Stone Age humans were apex predators, only moved to more plant-based diet 85,000 years ago

www.timesofisrael.com

the switch to more omnivorous eating is a much more modern thing - we just assume that when looking at modern groups of hunter gatherers that humans must have always been the same, but more recent studies and research suggest this isn't the case
we even lost 10% brain size when we began using agriculture to supply most of our food

 

[Diddums]

Discussion is a 2 way street

He's not interested in discussion, he just wants to parrot the same inane drivel constantly and ingore any debate. He lacks the mental ability to defend his stance when challenged, but instead just repeats himself in the hope that someone will agree with him.

Like a whining toddler.

 

[Removed User 345456]

He's not interested in discussion, he just wants to parrot the same inane drivel constantly and ingore and debate. He lacks the mental ability to defend his stance when challenged, but instead just repeats himself in the hope that someone will agree with him.

Like a whining toddler.

But... Are you gonna bang doe?

HEARTFELT lyrics!

 

[andybird123]

I'm the most carnivorous mofo on these boards and even I'll say that as human, we were probably never meant to be meat eaters. We evolved in to them, likely due to necessity, but look at the animal kingdom, no meat eating animals have our grindy molars, they all have incisors very clearly made for tearing meat.

Of course this will never be more than a hunch as we've eaten meat for as long we we can remember.

Adult lions have 30 permanent teeth that start to break through the gums at 3 months of age and continue to develop until 13 - 15 months of age. The adult teeth comprise of 12 incisors, 4 canines, 10 premolars and 4 molars.

 

[Diddums]

Adult lions have 30 permanent teeth that start to break through the gums at 3 months of age and continue to develop until 13 - 15 months of age. The adult teeth comprise of 12 incisors, 4 canines, 10 premolars and 4 molars.

I probably worded it poorly as all animals have molars, but you can clearly see that a lion's mouth is made fo ripping apart meat and ours isn't.

 

[Begbie]

This thread has reminded me to put in my butcher order. 6 * sirloin, 6 x ribeye both 10oz of course, 2kg of mince. Will last me a good ten days.

Had a fillet and four eggs for lunch, got to treat yourself on a Sunday.

 

[inogen]

a couple of things - carnivore diet humans have tested their microbiome as being healthy - equal to or better than people eating a "healthy balanced diet" - the bacteria required for dealing with fibrous foods does not die off when consuming a carnivore diet so you retain that capability if the need arises - junk food based diets do destroy the microbiome though, so no they do not "require" plant fibre to thrive

we didn’t evolve the capacity to eat plants by eating meat. We did it by eating plants. we always have eaten plants. Unlike, say cats. or sharks.

and I didn’t say we needed to eat plants for our gut biome. I said in order for it to thrive.

eat some porridge for a few weeks. You’ll feel great. Eat some fresh greens with your meat. It helps.

 

[Richie]

The absolute crackpot meat eaters that come out in these threads is shocking.

Nice balanced view...

Would you say there are "crackpot" vegans in this thread?

No you should.

If this is what eating meat does to brain development then Im gald I stopped.

Again, silly statement... The irony in this statement is just mind blowing .

 

[Removed User 345456]

I probably worded it poorly as all animals have molars, but you can clearly see that a lion's mouth is made fo ripping apart meat and ours isn't.

Rent out a ped but are you gonna bang doe?

 

[Removed User 345456]

This thread has reminded me to put in my butcher order. 6 * sirloin, 6 x ribeye both 10oz of course, 2kg of mince. Will last me a good ten days.

Had a fillet and four eggs for lunch, got to treat yourself on a Sunday.

That'd be what I'd call a 'cheat day' on keto - I just have a ridiculous size keto safe meal vs actually having what I'm not allowed (cause obviously would kick me out of ketosis/break the toilet)