Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Minusorange said:
I'm not entirely sure it would be so easy, yes NATO would likely win, but it wouldn't be the walk in the park some people seem to think it would be, Russia loses on a bad day what most NATO member states have as their full inventory, it's really only the US who has the stockpiles, so it would really be US vs Russia and China and bar launching nukes it would come at massive cost of human life for all sides
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NATO really just means the US, almost everyone else is irrelevant really, I don't think a single NATO member has the ability to force project without the logistics being supplied by the US. How many conflicts has the US won since WW2?

Nobody could outright beat China or Russia in a conventional sense, the land mass is too large and the native population would make occupation impossible. Its just pie in the sky nonsense, the only outcome is the destruction of all life on earth.
 
If Russia thinks the US will let them try and take Europe piece by piece then I can see them just going for it and right now that's how it comes across, how far do they get? If they tried the UK I guess we would be into nuclear war at that point. Would the US just pull out of all their EU bases before it kicked off?
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
Nobody could outright beat China or Russia in a conventional sense, the land mass is too large and the native population would make occupation impossible. Its just pie in the sky nonsense, the only outcome is the destruction of all life on earth.
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Thing with Russia and China, their soldiers are discouraged from thinking for themselves, low soldier professionalism, autonomy discouraged, heavily centralised command structure with heavy political oversight. You break that everything falls apart. Which is one of the reasons Ukraine has stood a chance as a significant number of the population are better prepared to think on their feet, improvise, etc. granted this is a gross generalisation.
 
Drukk said:
If Russia thinks the US will let them try and take Europe piece by piece then I can see them just going for it and right now that's how it comes across, how far do they get? If they tried the UK I guess we would be into nuclear war at that point. Would the US just pull out of all their EU bases before it kicked off?
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How on earth are Russia going to have the capability to do that whilst being bogged down in Ukraine, and after having sustained the losses that they have so far?

Honestly, I think Russia 's conveniental military capability is vastly over inflated, especially after the losses sustained in this conflict.

I can't imagine they would stand much of a chance against just Europe in an offensive war, let alone the whole of NATO.

They've had to begging for ammo and hardware from ******* N Korea for goodness sake.
 
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Lord-Jaffa said:
NATO really just means the US, almost everyone else is irrelevant really, I don't think a single NATO member has the ability to force project without the logistics being supplied by the US. How many conflicts has the US won since WW2?

Nobody could outright beat China or Russia in a conventional sense, the land mass is too large and the native population would make occupation impossible. Its just pie in the sky nonsense, the only outcome is the destruction of all life on earth.
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Isn't that underestimating the effectiveness of many other NATO countries?

Re WW3 how do the participants even line up? If you take out the nuclear aspect surely NATO would easily win.
 
Jono8 said:
How on earth are Russia going to have the capability to do that whilst being bogged down in Ukraine, and after having sustained the losses that they have so far?

Honestly, I think Russia 's conveniental military capability is vastly over inflated, especially after the losses sustained in this conflict.

I can't imagine they would stand much of a chance against just Europe in an offensive war, let alone the whole of NATO.

They've had to begging for ammo and hardware from ******* N Korea for goodness sake.
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Its game over for Russia if Nato gets involved they are battered, just a shame tonight its not the USA attacking russian positions but Houthi rebels.
 
Jono8 said:
How on earth are Russia going to have the capability to do that whilst being bogged down in Ukraine, and after having sustained the losses that they have so far?

Honestly, I think Russia 's conveniental military capability is vastly over inflated, especially after the losses sustained in this conflict.

I can't imagine they would stand much of a chance against just Europe in an offensive war, let alone the whole of NATO.

They've had to begging for ammo and hardware from ******* N Korea for goodness sake.
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I'm surprised how slowly Russia has mobilised towards the war effort - they on paper could do it - but as things stand we are looking at years for them to get the end to end infrastructure and processes in place to build up sufficient hardware and logistics behind it to engage NATO.

The last bit I'd be cautious of though - Russia very much has a different mentality in this respect and scraping the barrel doesn't always mean they are depleted and desperate - they generally look to using up the **** first even at huge cost.

I think the only complication really is the general lack of preparedness and complacency in the West and the thinking we can use a just in time approach if things do kick off - which at best will result in costly losses up front before things stabilise which could have been avoided, at worst could see us lose a war we easily should have won because we couldn't bring logistics at scale to bare in time and had limited skills/experience and limited facilities left to produce ammo and replacement hardware, etc. you can't start building this stuff on the back foot if you don't have enough to hold the line in the first place.
 
bingham67 said:
Its game over for Russia if Nato gets involved they are battered, just a shame tonight its not the USA attacking russian positions but Houthi rebels.
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I don't understand where this constant overestimation of Russia's conventional forces and underestimation of Europe's comes from. I can only think people swallow too much Russian propaganda from social media sites.
 
Rroff said:
I think the only complication really is the general lack of preparedness and complacency in the West and the thinking we can use a just in time approach if things do kick off - which at best will result in costly losses up front before things stabilise which could have been avoided, at worst could see us lose a war we easily should have won because we couldn't bring logistics at scale to bare in time and had limited skills/experience and limited facilities left to produce ammo and replacement hardware, etc. you can't start building this stuff on the back foot if you don't have enough to hold the line in the first place.
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But where are you getting this from? What makes you believe Russia is in any position to coordinate an attack that catches Europe/Nato napping in a way that you describe?

Western intelligence quite clearly knew Russia was planning to and likely attack Ukraine and was saying as much for ages. Idiots online and in the media thought they knew better and maintained there was no chance Russia would do it, but that wasn't reality, that was the internet.
 
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Jono8 said:
But where are you getting this from? What makes you believe Russia is in any position to coordinate an attack that catches Europe/Nato napping in a way that you describe?

Western intelligence quite clearly knew Russia was planning to and likely attack Ukraine and was saying as much for ages. Idiots online and in the media thought they knew better and maintained there was no chance Russia would do it, but that wasn't reality, that was the internet.
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I'm not talking a surprise attack, and Russia as is has an order of magnitude too few troops and equipment for an invasion of Europe, but we've let far too much in the way of skills/experience and infrastructure decline which can't be replaced overnight or even necessarily quickly enough if Russia began preparing for a wider war.

The last bit is a bit of revision though - very few people really accepted Russia would do it including many governments and intelligence services, right up to the last minute when all the signs were bad people were still being laughed at for suggesting it.
 
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I find most people seem to fall into either Russia has nothing left but cardboard cutout tanks and shovels camp or thinking Russia still has the armed forces of a superpower at its prime :s few seem to have a more realistic appraisal.
 
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Rroff said:
I find most people seem to fall into either Russia has nothing left but cardboard cutout tanks and shovels camp or thinking Russia still has the armed forces of a superpower at its prime :s few seem to have a more realistic appraisal.
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I don't think its a case of nothing left, its a case of their military is terrible. They couldn't even take Ukraine when they were at full strength. They might be able to take Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia but then they run into Poland and Poland likely remembers 1939 and all those years under Moscow's boot. If I were a betting man I'd be going all in on Poland to prevail.
 
Rroff said:
I find most people seem to fall into either Russia has nothing left but cardboard cutout tanks and shovels camp or thinking Russia still has the armed forces of a superpower at its prime :s few seem to have a more realistic appraisal.
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I don't doubt that Russia could still give Europe a bloody nose in a conventional fight, but I just can't see how they could invade and hold any significant portion of it.

I mean, they're struggling with just Ukraine and having to get weapons of N Korea....
 
chaparral said:
Does the Russia government paid for all the heating systems in russian ? :confused:

Over here home owners/companies/hotels etc got to paid for all their own heating systems.

I would take posts like this one with a very large pinch of salt
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I can't speak for the entire place but it looks like in many cities the housing is heated with a boiler system but the system cannot be turned on or off by the home owner, it's turned on/off by the city plant that manages the heating and they turn it on when it's cold and off when it's warm in theory but many residents complain it's either too hot or too cold.

I don't know if they pay for this heating but the fact they cannot control when it's on, I think maybe not. The other issue with this system is if the local plant is having an outage, the entire district or town has no heating unless the resident is wealthy enough to afford electric heating like air conditioning, which is rare in Russia. There is currently 1 million people without heating in a single Russian city due to an outage. Another million have no electricity in another and another 150k also have no heating in another due to 90 year old pipes bursting.

The Moscow times paper says approximately 70% of utility infrastructure in Russias cities are past their use by date
 
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Grim5 said:
I can't speak for the entire place but it looks like in many cities the housing is heated with a boiler system but the system cannot be turned on or off by the home owner, it's turned on/off by the city plant that manages the heating and they turn it on when it's cold and off when it's warm in theory but many residents complain it's either too hot or too cold.

I don't know if they pay for this heating but the fact they cannot control when it's on, I think maybe not. The other issue with this system is if the local plant is having an outage, the entire district or town has no heating unless the resident is wealthy enough to afford electric heating like air conditioning, which is rare in Russia. There is currently 1 million people without heating in a single Russian city due to an outage. Another million have no electricity in another and another 150k also have no heating in another due to 90 year old pipes bursting.

The Moscow times paper says approximately 70% of utility infrastructure in Russias cities are past their use by date
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Thanks
 
Grim5 said:
I can't speak for the entire place but it looks like in many cities the housing is heated with a boiler system but the system cannot be turned on or off by the home owner, it's turned on/off by the city plant that manages the heating and they turn it on when it's cold and off when it's warm in theory but many residents complain it's either too hot or too cold.

I don't know if they pay for this heating but the fact they cannot control when it's on, I think maybe not. The other issue with this system is if the local plant is having an outage, the entire district or town has no heating unless the resident is wealthy enough to afford electric heating like air conditioning, which is rare in Russia. There is currently 1 million people without heating in a single Russian city due to an outage. Another million have no electricity in another and another 150k also have no heating in another due to 90 year old pipes bursting.

The Moscow times paper says approximately 70% of utility infrastructure in Russias cities are past their use by date
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A mate who moved to russia told me the heating is on by default and is included in the rent. He said you can't turn it down and his flat is often like a sauna.

A few years back he said it was -35c, or something equally ridiculous, outside but it was baking hot in his flat, so he opened a window!
 
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