Greenlizard0 Premier League Football Thread ** spoilers ** [18th - 20th January 2025]

[Shamikebab]

You are conceding more chances and creating less under him

Pretty sure this isn't correct. We're creating less, but also conceding less chances. It's to be expected though, he's using a squad that was built for someone else's system. We knew it was going to struggle changing mid season with no signings.

 

[Robbo]

Why, the season is a write off, might as well see who is worth keeping and get them some playing time under the new system. They won't get relegated and other than financially, Europe will probably hamper them next season. He might have to make some minor tweaks if he doesn't believe it will work in the PL, but whats the point bringing in a manager who plays a certain way and then asking him to change it up before you've given him the tools he needs.

Difference with teams like Burnley is that United aren't fighting relegation (yet) and can actually bring in the players they need to make it work. Just gotta let him get the players he wants now and in the summer. Not too dissimilar to Klopp and Arteta when they first took over.

That's a good point, it doesn't really matter whether we finish 15th or 9th. A new manager bounce would have just papered over the cracks as usual, we know these players are generally not up to scratch.

Amorim has quite clearly decided - and he's made this clear in interviews - he won't change systems. A lot of these issues are individual errors, Onana gifting the opposition goals is not a result of the system. Conceding from corners isn't really down to the formation, that goes out of the window at corners.

I hope that's the view the club are taking, and they are prepared to spend money and back him. This must have been discussed before he joined...

 

[Sui]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1881005004099850527

The more I watch it, the worse it gets.

 

[C Kent]

I don't agree with you here. You can't ignore the games against the big teams, players haven't been up for it under previous managers. We've been spanked 7-0 and 3-0 by Liverpool under ETH. Also against City, 6-3 and 2 x 3-0.

Ten Hag got wins against both Liverpool and Man City?

It seems like people think we've fallen down the table since he took the reins but we were 14th when ETH was given his marching orders. The only thing that concerns me is we're worse in the final third.

You were 4 points off 4th when he took over, you are now 12 points off.

 

[Reuben klang]

Why would he regret it? Massive salary and payout plus he said he knew exactly what he was singing up for.

I’m with you, will his reputation even take a hit? He wasn’t exactly top the tree before hand - i.e he almost went to WHU in the summer.

Most if not everyone will look at it and say, this United team is just rubbish. If he can get them in the top half he’s done an outstanding job with what he’s gone into.

I'm obviously enjoying the season being a Liverpool supporter but this has got to be one of the best seasons for ages if you're a neutral. If either Forest or Bournemouth, maybe both, get top 4 it'll be an outstanding achievement.

Be up there with the Leicester season if Notts can win it. Would be amazing if they could. I just can’t see it though, difference was Leicester where the front runner and can’t see Pool losing that many points!

The only criticism I have of Amorim is that the greatest managers are pragmatic, they don't generally have one way of playing and refuse to really change that.

But 90% of the blame lies with the Glazers, and the overpaid and overrated players. I'm not going to blame INEOS yet as expecting them to fix everything in 6 months is unrealistic too, although the Ashworth thing is a strange one.

Hang about though, all reports suggest the place is now a nightmare to work at for all staff. The report from the athletic was someone said at least the glazers cared about people/family.

If the place isn’t a happy place to work at right across the board, no wonder it’s a mess. May even be worse now than when it was solely the glazers!!

He being honest at least feel maybe you got to tweak the tactics to suit the absolute dross we go though, but he said he not changing so buckle up and enjoy the rollercoaster because it going to be a very harsh ride, especially if we have no signings.

So stupid, the best managers/coaches can surely adapt. Pep/Klopp adapt, Carlo adapts. Moronic to continue with square pegs in round holes. The players can’t play the way he wants but just keep getting hammered.

if a manager doesn't have the players to play 'his' system but continues anyway, that is 100% on the manager. It's no different to Kompany @ Burnley and I don't remember folks giving him a free pass last year. You are conceding more chances and creating less under him (ignore the results/games against the top teams as you'd expect the players to be 'up for it' in those). He looks completely out of his depth, which is great as an opposition fan, but extremely worrying for a man utd fan imo.

Basically echo this. Same with the saints manager before he got sacked and Ange at Spurs. It’s all well and good trying to play this current be all and end all style but if you aren’t winning, bye bye.

Why, the season is a write off, might as well see who is worth keeping and get them some playing time under the new system. They won't get relegated and other than financially, Europe will probably hamper them next season. He might have to make some minor tweaks if he doesn't believe it will work in the PL, but whats the point bringing in a manager who plays a certain way and then asking him to change it up before you've given him the tools he needs.

Difference with teams like Burnley is that United aren't fighting relegation (yet) and can actually bring in the players they need to make it work. Just gotta let him get the players he wants now and in the summer. Not too dissimilar to Klopp and Arteta when they first took over.

Yet.

We all live in hope!

 

[C Kent]

Pretty sure this isn't correct. We're creating less, but also conceding less chances. It's to be expected though, he's using a squad that was built for someone else's system. We knew it was going to struggle changing mid season with no signings.

Ten Hag:
XG: 1.54
XGA: 1.94

Amorim:
XG: 1.51
XGA: 1.67

The only reason the XGA is worse under Ten Hag is down to the Spurs game where they racked up an xga of 5.41 - if you take away the worst xga games for each then ten hag is 1.2 and Amorim is 1.53

*rough figures

 

[Shamikebab]

So you were wrong then? The sample size is already tiny and you want to just remove one game for the hell of it to fit your agenda

 

[Mekrel]

Ten Hag got wins against both Liverpool and Man City?

You were 4 points off 4th when he took over, you are now 12 points off.

Amorim has also won against City, but it's a moot point - there's no solice in beating the top 6 on a good day, but being susceptible to being embarrassed by large scorelines.

The points difference is a baseless stat, being 4 points adrift on 4th isn't solely a measure of Amorim vs ETH performances. It's also massively swung by the points shared by the teams above, which is always going to be closer earlier in the season.

 

[Robbo]

But there are plenty of mitigating factors.

- The squad isn’t that great and morale is very low.

- The general feeling around the club is also pretty bad and that filters down.

- He’s taken over during the most chaotic part of the season with very little training time. This is a huge issue.

- His entire managerial philosophy requires players of a different profile to the ones we have.

- He’s yet to sign a single player.

- The pressure here is unlike almost anywhere else.

The ETH stuff is irrelevant now, he had more than 2 years here, spent a fortune and was taking us backwards. Wasn’t all his fault of course but it’s in the past now.

All that said I do think the calls for a degree of flexibility and pragmatism are somewhat justified, but Amorim needs to do it his way. He’s been pretty clear on that.

Didn’t it take Klopp 4 years to win a trophy with Liverpool? And he’s one of the truly great managers, but he still needed world class players in a few positions - that’s how difficult it is.

 

[C Kent]

So you were wrong then? The sample size is already tiny and you want to just remove one game for the hell of it to fit your agenda

not at all, you were more solid defensively under ten hag baring one total outlier of a game. But hey you lot can continue with the delusion that Amorim is improving the team and its just the 'referees out to get you' and we can all look forward to more of the same a couple of years down the line (assuming he makes it past the end of this one of course) where you've got a team built to play a specific formation and you've hired a new guy that doesn't play 3-4-3.

 

[Robbo]

We were facing a huge amount of shots in most games under ETH (often 20+), it was well documented. Things have settled down a bit on that front.

 

[C Kent]

We were facing a huge amount of shots in most games under ETH (often 20+), it was well documented. Things have settled down a bit on that front.

Would that not mean that the chances being created are of a better quality against you then as the xga's are pretty similar?

 

[Shamikebab]

That was last season, not so much this season.

 

[JamesH85]

Time for another 600m rebuild, flog it all on **** players, say the squads not good enough, then inevitably sack the manager because they can't play he wants. How many is this now? 5th attempt?

 

[adam cool dude]

Why, the season is a write off, might as well see who is worth keeping and get them some playing time under the new system. They won't get relegated and other than financially, Europe will probably hamper them next season. He might have to make some minor tweaks if he doesn't believe it will work in the PL, but whats the point bringing in a manager who plays a certain way and then asking him to change it up before you've given him the tools he needs.

Difference with teams like Burnley is that United aren't fighting relegation (yet) and can actually bring in the players they need to make it work. Just gotta let him get the players he wants now and in the summer. Not too dissimilar to Klopp and Arteta when they first took over.

Agreed at this moment in time he just needs to play these players in his system and focus on winning games in the Europa and FA Cup. Use the league as a training session.

It is strange how we can manage up a performance against Arsenal, City and Liverpool. Then crumble against Southampton, Wolves, Bournemouth and now Brighton.

 

[Robbo]

The funny thing is, Brighton have a better squad than we do, so why is the loss even a surprise? We don't have a divine right to win due to the size of the club. Looking at the table and other teams, I think 10th-12th is probably the best we can do, a damning indictment of the past few years.

I think in an ideal world we'd get rid of Rashford and possibly also Garnacho, and start investing in players who are superior and also better understand Amorim's system. And we're barely even being linked to any signings? The club need to start backing Amorim, and they need to do it now. Maybe Ratcliffe will just decide Amorim is rubbish and sack him along with the CEO who appointed him?

These discussions are going to happen after most games for the rest of the season...

 

[sigma]

Time for another 600m rebuild, flog it all on **** players, say the squads not good enough, then inevitably sack the manager because they can't play he wants. How many is this now? 5th attempt?

What if they back Amorim and his unusual (for the league) methods don't achieve success? Rebuild number 7 then. In the Championship. League One?

 

[manic111]

It is strange how we can manage up a performance against Arsenal, City and Liverpool. Then crumble against Southampton, Wolves, Bournemouth and now Brighton.

Not really. It's easier to play against teams who come at you when you clog the middle of the pitch with three CBs, two DMs, and two wing backs.

It's no criticism, it's where United are right now, and against better teams it's an entirely legitimate tactic. But you'll struggle to beat teams who you've got to come onto.

 

[Thekwango]

What if they back Amorim and his unusual (for the league) methods don't achieve success? Rebuild number 7 then. In the Championship. League One?

so, what should utd do - not back him?

 

[Robbo]

so, what should utd do - not back him?

They will have to. I'm sure this was clearly established before he joined, he was pretty clear that he will only play 'his' system and will need players to do so.

Any manager would need players though, the players aren't good enough no matter what formation you put them in. Too much focus is on the formation and not individual mistakes and player ability.