Interesting one I noticed was several people doing a ton up through the average 50 speed camera areas like the new Heads of the Valley road or whatever - Googling it possibly they aren't actually working though most of those posts are months old or more. To be fair there was a downhill section where bringing the limit down to 50 is probably saving lives and maybe 1-2 other bits where it made sense, but much of the rest is just plain insanity.
20mph residential speed limit (replacing 30mph)
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Interesting one I noticed was several people doing a ton up through the average 50 speed camera areas like the new Heads of the Valley road or whatever - Googling it possibly they aren't actually working though most of those posts are months old or more. To be fair there was a downhill section where bringing the limit down to 50 is probably saving lives and maybe 1-2 other bits where it made sense, but much of the rest is just plain insanity.
Not rolling out widespread somewhat indiscriminate limits largely based on ideology and/or agenda would be a good start.
I'm told by someone who was working for the local police that most of the time they don't work. At least not in my area. They were installed in groups and only one stretch of them is active at a time.
Maybe the council can only afford one licence or something
Seems like a massive waste of money tbh and they need maintenance as well. I've noticed the ones installed in to the soil start to lean after a few years which will probably throw out the calibration.
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RR>
May I remind you that we’ve previously had a whole element of a debate canned by a mod.
Also, that this thread has stopped back in May, until you restarted it yesterday morning.
If you insist on posting something here that I vehemently disagree with, then I’ll feel obliged to respond.
In short, if you don’t wish to continue the debate, please don’t keep repeating the same mantra here.
May I remind you that we’ve previously had a whole element of a debate canned by a mod.
Also, that this thread has stopped back in May, until you restarted it yesterday morning.
If you insist on posting something here that I vehemently disagree with, then I’ll feel obliged to respond.
In short, if you don’t wish to continue the debate, please don’t keep repeating the same mantra here.
This sounds like a you problem quite frankly.
My post explained why I posted again in here - the first time I'd got to [properly] experience these limits first hand in Wales since their introduction.
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Depends on the nature of the limit - coming into a village and having a 20MPH limit through a section of the high street or select residential areas is one thing, the approach in Wales is another - regarding the benefits of them best way I can explain it is like someone thinking slapping a pretty piece of jewellery makes them prettier and that by extension slapping on 50 pieces of pretty jewellery makes them 50x prettier - reality doesn't work like that.
At least I’ve explained my position.
Balls in your court on that count.
So, you were explaining your practical and pragmatic solution for a set of speed limits that make sense, drivers will adhere to and are viable to implement…
As you said we've been over this and I've explained my position several times, again this seems more and more like a you problem.
Not breaking a system that mostly worked though needed improvement with a heavy handed approach implemented based mostly on ideology and agenda would have been a good start.
Speed humps all need removing.
If you have ever been to Millbrook there is a sketchy speed hump as you turn off the roundabout from the main road in to the village. Down a blind hill from 50 in to 30 and then immediately a big hump. So dangerous.
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What you e stated previously is that you consider them arbitrary.
That’s not a solution to the issue.
Don’t get me wrong, i also consider that some speed limits appear to be too low. However:
- I’m conscious that regardless of the speed limits, that some consider them optional
- that removing speed limits would probably result in road anarchy
- hanging smart variable speed limits that make would be extremely expensive and also confusing
- that I believe there is a correlation between those who consider speed limits optional, and those who tailgate, overtake in dangerous places etc. Also that ignoring some rules encourages others to ignore even more
So right now, I’d prefer to have better speed limits, but I don’t know of a more practical solution than what we have.
If you’ve thought of one, do advise, I’m all ears.
I did think I’d seen you state that you drive for a living, so you probably have more road miles than me, regardless of the fact that I’ve probably been driving for longer.
That’s not a solution to the issue.
Don’t get me wrong, i also consider that some speed limits appear to be too low. However:
- I’m conscious that regardless of the speed limits, that some consider them optional
- that removing speed limits would probably result in road anarchy
- hanging smart variable speed limits that make would be extremely expensive and also confusing
- that I believe there is a correlation between those who consider speed limits optional, and those who tailgate, overtake in dangerous places etc. Also that ignoring some rules encourages others to ignore even more
So right now, I’d prefer to have better speed limits, but I don’t know of a more practical solution than what we have.
If you’ve thought of one, do advise, I’m all ears.
I did think I’d seen you state that you drive for a living, so you probably have more road miles than me, regardless of the fact that I’ve probably been driving for longer.
At least as far as adherence to speed limits go I've never stated that I consider them [completely] arbitrary, at least not the way you seem to be framing it there, and especially not in my own driving.
This depends a lot on how you are framing it - there are a lot of people who have a loose interpretation of the speed limit but framing them as considering limits optional in my opinion is hyperbolic and who essentially never tailgate, or overtake dangerously, etc. and as best they can adhere to the rules of the road. There are also unfortunately a good number of people who don't but their consideration of the speed limits as optional is the least of the problems there and you can't fix their driving with changes to the speed limit or other people driving strictly in accordance to the speed limit. Especially not as you were doing of beating people up for minor speed violations as they were enabling people who drive recklessly, selfishly and ignorantly.
I've had my license since 2001 - but I've only been doing high mileage for the past 6-7 years, I don't think it particularly relevant here though.
What I've been saying is you can't just slap speed limits in and expect to get the benefits of them and you do need to properly consider the wider influence they will have on and the realities of driver behaviour, otherwise you do undermine where speed limits can be a useful tool in shaping driver behaviour (which had been considered with a lot of existing speed limits) and end up just frustrating drivers or causing more issues for no good reason.
My reason for including the amount of driving is that I consider experience of driving and adherence to speed limits to be highly relevant. I’ve been driving for 43 years now, used to driving vaguely high mileage some time back and have also driven in a number of other countries. Seeing how the various methods used and how they’ve changed over time I believe helps with understanding options by observing their practical application.
For example, when I was in my early 20s the roads had quite different speed limits to what the same roads have now. However, congestion is massively worse, and where overtaking could actually get you somewhere faster 35 years ago, just result in you catching up another mobile traffic jam now.
In the UK, with its congestion and deteriorating driving standards, trying to drive “with enthusiasm” hasn’t really been viable in most locations for a long time, yet many drivers still believe they can.
It’s a mindset issue, you’re right about that.
Again, and for example, when younger I had several hot hatches, a Nissan 200SX, several BMWs and more recently several MX5s.
To help maintain some pleasure in driving, what might have included enthusiasm 30 years ago is now aiming to be smooth, precise, polite and doing it all with the road laws. It’s very satisfying to do well. Along the way, I hope that elements like politeness to others rubs off on others.
For example, when I was in my early 20s the roads had quite different speed limits to what the same roads have now. However, congestion is massively worse, and where overtaking could actually get you somewhere faster 35 years ago, just result in you catching up another mobile traffic jam now.
In the UK, with its congestion and deteriorating driving standards, trying to drive “with enthusiasm” hasn’t really been viable in most locations for a long time, yet many drivers still believe they can.
It’s a mindset issue, you’re right about that.
Again, and for example, when younger I had several hot hatches, a Nissan 200SX, several BMWs and more recently several MX5s.
To help maintain some pleasure in driving, what might have included enthusiasm 30 years ago is now aiming to be smooth, precise, polite and doing it all with the road laws. It’s very satisfying to do well. Along the way, I hope that elements like politeness to others rubs off on others.
This is pretty much how I drive these days too. I try to get to my destination with the minimum of fuss, inconvenience for myself and others on the road, and the maximum respect for all other road users (especially those who are more vulnerable such as cyclists, motorcyclists, and pedestrians). I adhere to speed limits religiously with 1 exception; when overtaking on an NSL road I will go as fast as is necessary to minimise the time I spend on the other side of the road. This is illegal but it is what I was taught by a police motorcycle rider when I did an advanced roadcraft course in the 90s (That was fun by the way. Having my mirrors full of police BMW and hearing him shout "faster" over the rider to rider intercom when I was already doing 75mph on an NSL road was.... eye opening).
I agree that some limits are stupidly low, but they are the limits and that is the law.
This is largely how I drive, though a significant contribution to that is seeing several serious and in some cases fatal accidents first hand - fortunately so far not been the first on scene and so had to deal with it (no amount of pictures or videos can replicate seeing and especially hearing those kind of things in person).
One thing your post illustrates though is that the roads in reality are complex and you need a certain amount of discretion/flexibility in approach to accommodate situations which might arise which the rules can't possibly encompass. Like when you overtake someone in what should be a perfectly safe situation only for them to suddenly wake up and speed up once you've committed making it safer to exceed the speed limit to safely overtake than to try and abort the overtake.
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Rilot>
Fully agree on your use of additional speed to overtake. I’m horrified when I see someone overtaking me as though they have all the time in the world. I do seem to remember that the speed limit has a +10mph tolerance during overtakes.
Fully agree on your use of additional speed to overtake. I’m horrified when I see someone overtaking me as though they have all the time in the world. I do seem to remember that the speed limit has a +10mph tolerance during overtakes.
Noted!
It was a long time ago that I did my bike test, though it was a good deal more recently than my driving test.