NVIDIA - CES 2018

melmac · 8 Jan 2018 at 15:16

GoogalyMoogaly said:
What, you mean releasing high-end cards?

Nope, the way they release and market their products. It's brilliant. The introduction of the Titan cards, and renaming the mid range cards to x80/x70 was genius, people think it's a whole new layer of performance, but actually it's just the x80/x70 cards renamed to Titan/x80ti. And, then, the timing of the releases is perfect too. First they release the x80/x70 cards. Then the Titan card. And then a few months later the x80ti card. So gamers are upgrading twice in the same card cycle. And because Titan is so high priced, the x80Ti seems like a bargain in comparison.

Ahh, but, you thought I was been critical of Nvidia, didn't you? Sorry, to spoil your sarcastic comment.

Nvidia run their business really well and know how to get the most from their customers.

Rroff · 8 Jan 2018 at 15:19

melmac said:
Ahh, but, you thought I was been critical of Nvidia, didn't you?

I read it as cynical criticism and IMO justified.

clone · 8 Jan 2018 at 15:20

New Nvidia card confirmed.
XXXXXXPPPFYREFEDGHCSHUBE Ti

Silent_Scone · 8 Jan 2018 at 15:24

Rroff said:
If everyone thought like you £3000 would be entry level by now :s now that is mongage.

No they wouldn't. I didn't buy a Titan V because it's nonsensical. It doesn't have to be £2,700 for people to moan, though. People will do that regardless as it's posturing. They're trying to get what they want for a price that reflects their disposable income. What I was stipulating, was those that moan about paying out for a smaller GPU die first gen, simply because they're aware there is a bigger variant. That's more posturing, and more entitlement.

It's the people that are buying cards for gaming at shy of 3,000 pounds that are going to drive prices up.

melmac · 8 Jan 2018 at 15:26

Rroff said:
I read it as cynical criticism and IMO justified.

Well you read wrong. Maybe that says more about you than me?

As a business owner, I am genuinely impressed with the way Nvidia are operating right now. They have created nearly the perfect storm. And how they reached their current dominance is even more impressive.

Gregster · 8 Jan 2018 at 15:30

Melmac, that was proper cynical and a bit of baiting that back fired. At least be honest.

clone · 8 Jan 2018 at 15:31

Why cant people just be happy,if a guy wants to buy the best it's up to that person is it not .

Rroff · 8 Jan 2018 at 15:32

melmac said:
Well you read wrong. Maybe that says more about you than me?

As a business owner, I am genuinely impressed with the way Nvidia are operating right now. They have created nearly the perfect storm. And how they reached their current dominance is even more impressive.

Maybe I put that wrong but I read it as you talking about it as cynical "evil genius" rather than "genius" in a disparaging way at something that was not very clever.

Regardless I'm not a fan of nVidia's tactics and don't understand people who support them in this practise of basically putting a premium on something because its "new" and "5%" faster than whatever was before. Same kind of attitudes seem to be behind some of the support for Windows 10 :s

jigger · 8 Jan 2018 at 15:39

melmac said:
Nope, the way they release and market their products. It's brilliant. The introduction of the Titan cards, and renaming the mid range cards to x80/x70 was genius, people think it's a whole new layer of performance, but actually it's just the x80/x70 cards renamed to Titan/x80ti. And, then, the timing of the releases is perfect too. First they release the x80/x70 cards. Then the Titan card. And then a few months later the x80ti card. So gamers are upgrading twice in the same card cycle. And because Titan is so high priced, the x80Ti seems like a bargain in comparison.

Ahh, but, you thought I was been critical of Nvidia, didn't you? Sorry, to spoil your sarcastic comment.

Nvidia run their business really well and know how to get the most from their customers.

What is impressive is the number of people that seem fall for it. The DIY PC market seems easy picking right now. That said I think a lot of Nvidia success is down to the demand for AMD cards from miners and the timing of the coin boom. I think those factors have held up Nvidia prices and allowed them an easy ride. If Vega and Polaris cards had been available in numbers at RRP to the gaming market I think Pascal prices would have dropped long ago.

Rroff · 8 Jan 2018 at 15:43

jigger said:
What is impressive is the number of people that seem fall for it. The DIY PC market seems easy picking right now. That said I think a lot of Nvidia success is down to the demand for AMD cards from miners and the timing of the coin boom. I think those factors have held up Nvidia prices and allowed them an easy ride. If Vega and Polaris cards had been available in numbers at RRP to the gaming market I think Pascal prices would have dropped long ago.

A lot of that is at the feet of GF IMO and a bit due to HBM supply. AMD desperately needs Vega on 12FF and some tweaking - IMO if they slightly streamlined the architecture so as to be able to clock bump it on silicon that responded more like TSMC's and had good yields we'd be talking about Vega in a very different context. I don't get this persistence with AMD of going for fat pipelines that are always underused in the realworld and penalise clock speed. (Especially as was shown with Polaris albeit without silicon to support the potential clocks you can slim down some of that pipeline without penalty).

jigger · 8 Jan 2018 at 15:53

Rroff said:
A lot of that is at the feet of GF IMO and a bit due to HBM supply. AMD desperately needs Vega on 12FF and some tweaking - IMO if they slightly streamlined the architecture so as to be able to clock bump it on silicon that responded more like TSMC's and had good yields we'd be talking about Vega in a very different context. I don't get this persistence with AMD of going for fat pipelines that are always underused in the realworld and penalise clock speed. (Especially as was shown with Polaris albeit without silicon to support the potential clocks you can slim down some of that pipeline without penalty).

AMD seem to have a lot of demand for Vega chips from a lot of different parts of the market. Retail demand for Vega graphics cards* is huge. I called half a dozen places to enquire about making a big order for Vega cards and non could fill the order. One place said maybe with 6-10 weeks lead time.

Rroff · 8 Jan 2018 at 15:56

jigger said:
Retail demand for Vega graphics cards* is huge. I called half a dozen places to enquire about making a big order for Vega cards and non could fill the order. One place said maybe with 6-10 weeks lead time.

Isn't that just because there is pretty much no supply right now especially with the transition to AIB and AMD seemingly trying to not get stuck with 14nm cards when they move to another node? rather than demand.

jigger · 8 Jan 2018 at 16:04

Rroff said:
Isn't that just because there is pretty much no supply right now especially with the transition to AIB and AMD seemingly trying to not get stuck with 14nm cards when they move to another node? rather than demand.

I think it's demand from the mining market, Intel and APU's plus lengthy back orders.

melmac · 8 Jan 2018 at 16:54

Gregster said:
Melmac, that was proper cynical and a bit of baiting that back fired. At least be honest.

No, you are wrong. Again.

I have explained myself in other posts, not going to repeat myself to you.

melmac · 8 Jan 2018 at 17:05

Rroff said:
Maybe I put that wrong but I read it as you talking about it as cynical "evil genius" rather than "genius" in a disparaging way at something that was not very clever.

Regardless I'm not a fan of nVidia's tactics and don't understand people who support them in this practise of basically putting a premium on something because its "new" and "5%" faster than whatever was before. Same kind of attitudes seem to be behind some of the support for Windows 10 :s

I didn't mean "evil genius" I just think it's great business, full stop. You might not like it, but, you have to admire the way they have pulled it off.

AS for your last statement, I know what you are saying, but, that's just the way it is now. I can remember you pointing this out several times when the 1080 launched. Paying high end prices for mid range cards, that the 1080Ti would be released etc. You can remember the replies you got, I don't need to repeat them to you. It's another reason why I admire them or maybe am jealous of them. They have basically carte blanche with their customer base. I wish I had that luxury

Bluntwrapped · 8 Jan 2018 at 18:11

Showing admiration for successful corporate capitalism really goes to show how warped the human mind is.

Shameless ignorance dressed up as enthusiasm.

mid_gen · 8 Jan 2018 at 18:45

Really hoping the GTX cards still have the tensor cores. Starting to do some machine learning work and would love that performance. I'd be even spend x80ti money, just not Titan V!

GoogalyMoogaly · 8 Jan 2018 at 19:01

melmac said:
Nope, the way they release and market their products. It's brilliant. The introduction of the Titan cards, and renaming the mid range cards to x80/x70 was genius, people think it's a whole new layer of performance, but actually it's just the x80/x70 cards renamed to Titan/x80ti. And, then, the timing of the releases is perfect too. First they release the x80/x70 cards. Then the Titan card. And then a few months later the x80ti card. So gamers are upgrading twice in the same card cycle. And because Titan is so high priced, the x80Ti seems like a bargain in comparison.

Ahh, but, you thought I was been critical of Nvidia, didn't you? Sorry, to spoil your sarcastic comment.

Nvidia run their business really well and know how to get the most from their customers.

In fairness AMD do the same thing, except they renamed the x870 to the x970 (to look like they added an extra tier), then they renamed that to the x90X part, then Fury and finally the Vega parts, except at the same time they moved those parts down to be mid-range parts while still naming them as top-end parts. Also in both cases filling out the product range with re-badges of the previous gen cards. They're now charging ~£800 for mid-range. I'm not sure which system is best but they've both got it down to a fine art.

Rroff · 8 Jan 2018 at 19:09

To be fair to AMD nVidia set the tone and they (AMD) aren't in a position to redefine the landscape especially with current margins, performance envelope and supply.

fenchu · 8 Jan 2018 at 19:21

Nexus18 said:
And still not OLED!

Can't wait to see the price too, something tells me I will be feeling very smug about my £1099 LG 55E7

Any word on how they are achieving 120HZ @ 4k? I very much doubt it is HDMI 2.1 considering that was only "officially announced" a few months ago and the display manufacturers will need to build chips to utilise the features of 2.1 and TVs aren't likely to be getting this until the end of this year, more than likely not until next year and as we know, TV tech. moves far quicker so there is no way monitor manufacturers will be jumping on to it this quick so seems like it will be display port 1.4. Also, not to mention, no current GPU has HDMI 2.1 either...... It will also be interesting to see if it is native 120HZ or just an overclock.

Nice price nexus , I bought my c7 55 back in July and been loving gaming on it ... really should sell my asus pg348q whilst i can get some money back. Biggest waste of money in a long time my lcd gsync is just meh in comparison to oled at 120hz just not worth the premium gysnc. For me all LCDS are like a dead horse same problems as 10 years ago ........ dead tech.