Sir Alex Ferguson Retires

this_is_gav · 12 May 2013 at 10:25

The Running Man said:
Martinez has won more trophies than Moyes with less budget playing a more expansive game with inferior players .. in 11 years Moyes has had zero success I'm just wondering why people think he is so right for the job.

You could very easily argue that without Moyes, Everton would have done a Wolves/Sheff Wed/Nottingham Forest at some point over the past decade.

On the other hand, when people have been discussing how well Everton have been doing in recent seasons, I've pointed out that they've got a strong squad and that they should be in the top half fighting just underneath the European qualification placings.

The real positive is how consistently they have been fighting there, season after season and with Moyes having to constantly evolve, losing the bigger names in his squad. All it would take is one bad season (doing a Newcastle for example), slipping into the relegation zone at the end of the season and they'd struggle to get back into the top flight.

That he hasn't won a trophy shouldn't be a reflection of his success at Everton. The fact that Everton are still in the Premiership is arguably success enough.

FrankJH · 12 May 2013 at 10:31

The Running Man said:
Martinez has won more trophies than Moyes with less budget playing a more expansive game with inferior players .. in 11 years Moyes has had zero success I'm just wondering why people think he is so right for the job.

Martinez beat a team with man for man better skills / with a squad value 10- 15 times that of Wigan , but by all means pick on a team that's bare bones and where top flight position is far more important than any cup win (especially with the money coming in next season to the EPL).

Give Moyes a chance for **** sake

edit - I wouldn't say Everton's squad is that strong. They have got a good 1st XI for their usual position in the EPL, with maybe an extra one or two good players - but a strong squad is imo stretching the truth a little.

semi-pro waster · 12 May 2013 at 10:55

The Running Man said:
Okay bit can you tell me what style of football Moyes deploys? (And no it doesn't have to be in rhyme)

I don't know precisely what he'll do as manager of Man Utd, as G|mp suggests I suspect he'll play to the strengths of the team he has so he might well adapt and play a different style to what you perceive his to be. Everton might not always have played an open and expansive game of football under Moyes but they've been fairly consistent and on a tight budget I think it's fair to say he has improved them over time.

If you're always looking for the negatives it's true that you'll rarely be disappointed but equally I'm not sure it's a particularly satisfying outlook to have either.

By all means if in a couple of years time Man Utd are nowhere near the top of the league and getting nowhere in the cups then the criticism might be justified, as it is it looks premature given you can't really know how good or bad it will be.

this_is_gav said:
That he hasn't won a trophy shouldn't be a reflection of his success at Everton. The fact that Everton are still in the Premiership is arguably success enough.

I think you're right about that, success can be either absolute or relative. And relative to resources what Moyes has done with/for Everton is a success.

The Running Man · 12 May 2013 at 12:05

Yes the grant Holt tactic. I'm looking forward to this

Robbo · 12 May 2013 at 13:29

Nick, Moyes has been appointed based on his personality and general style, the football you play depends on the players you have at your disposal. A good manager can always adapt and change this.

Please try and understand that, I know it's hard for you.

Tom84 · 12 May 2013 at 13:31

I always thought if there was one ever so small silver lining when Fergie did decide to retire it would be Nick would finally shut the hell up.... But no we're just going to have to live through more of the same old crap during Moyes' reign as well

Please someone just ban him would ya?

BaZ87 · 12 May 2013 at 13:49

Robbo said:
the football you play depends on the players you have at your disposal. A good manager can always adapt and change this.

Great theory but it doesn't explain why we see several managers play the same tactics wherever they go, no matter what players they have available to them. Can Moyes change his tactics and do it effectively? Only time will tell and that's the gamble Utd have taken because if he doesn't change it's not going to be pretty.

Robbo · 12 May 2013 at 13:51

BaZ87 said:
Great theory but it doesn't explain why we see several managers play the same tactics wherever they go, no matter what players they have available to them. Can Moyes change his tactics and do it effectively? Only time will tell and that's the gamble Utd have taken because if he doesn't change it's not going to be pretty.

You said it best there, time will tell. No point moaning about it just yet.

Aside from that, Everton's more skillful players have always played pretty nicely and he certainly got the best out of them.

He'd have to be insane to shove RvP up front and play hoofball. There's no way.

BaZ87 · 12 May 2013 at 13:53

Robbo said:
Aside from that, Everton's more skillful players have always played pretty nicely and he certainly got the best out of them.

I'm not sure if that's sarcasm. One of Everton supporters biggest complaints about Moyes is that he ruins attacking players.

Robbo · 12 May 2013 at 13:55

BaZ87 said:
I'm not sure if that's sarcasm. One of Everton supporters biggest complaints about Moyes is that he ruins attacking players.

I didn't say attacking players though, I mean Baines, and even Pienaar.

Azza · 12 May 2013 at 13:56

BaZ87 said:
I'm not sure if that's sarcasm. One of Everton supporters biggest complaints about Moyes is that he ruins attacking players.

Not attacking players just strikers. RVP will get 5 goals if that next season.

K1LLSW1TCH · 12 May 2013 at 13:57

Azza said:
Not attacking players just strikers. RVP will get 5 goals if that next season.

All from corners?

BaZ87 · 12 May 2013 at 14:00

Robbo said:
I didn't say attacking players though, I mean Baines, and even Pienaar.

Well you did use RvP as an example and isn't it quite telling that one of Everton's best attacking players is a defender?

Azza · 12 May 2013 at 14:01

BaZ87 said:
Well you did use RvP as an example and isn't it quite telling that one of Everton's best attacking players is a defender?

If he was in your team he'd be your best attacking player.

Robbo · 12 May 2013 at 14:03

BaZ87 said:
Well you did use RvP as an example and isn't it quite telling that one of Everton's best attacking players is a defender?

A very attacking full back, if you think he'll stick RvP up front and hoof it to him you're as crazy as Nick. Doing that would be monumentally idiotic and there's no chance of it.

I can't see why you think he'll use the exact same system with a totally different squad of players.

ThundyCat · 12 May 2013 at 14:07

Is it heated enough in here for me to toast some marshmallows yet?

My biggest dread is when they release the 2013/2014 fixtures....first game.... Man Utd vs Everton.

BaZ87 · 12 May 2013 at 14:08

Robbo said:
A very attacking full back, if you think he'll stick RvP up front and hoof it to him you're as crazy as Nick. Doing that would be monumentally idiotic and there's no chance of it.

I can't see why you think he'll use the exact same system with a totally different squad of players.

You evidently can't read. I've not once said he would use the same tactics. I've said Utd have taken a gamble on him being willing and able to effectively change his tactics - a gamble that I can't understand why they'd take.

As I said earlier, you quoted and seemingly agreed with, only time will tell whether he can or will change.

Robbo · 12 May 2013 at 14:11

BaZ87 said:
You evidently can't read. I've not once said he would use the same tactics. I've said Utd have taken a gamble on him being willing and able to effectively change his tactics - a gamble that I can't understand why they'd take.

As I said earlier, you quoted and seemingly agreed with, only time will tell whether he can or will change.

So you're arguing for the sake of it, as usual.

It seems that most Man Utd fans are happy to give him a chance, perhaps that's what you're having trouble understanding. I don't think it's that big of a gamble really, you thinking he'll keep the exact same tactics is just wishful thinking more than anything.

Newbie007 · 12 May 2013 at 14:15

David Moyes away record against Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea:
Played: 43
Won: 0

Long may that continue !

BaZ87 · 12 May 2013 at 14:15

Robbo said:
So you're arguing for the sake of it, as usual.

It seems that most Man Utd fans are happy to give him a chance, perhaps that's what you're having trouble understanding. I don't think it's that big of a gamble really, you thinking he'll keep the exact same tactics is just wishful thinking more than anything.

LOL

Time of the month?

Who's arguing? I made one post that you agreed with and then later questioned your statement on Moyes and attacking/skillful players. Stop being so defensive, you're making yourself look silly.

And please don't tell me I'm having trouble understanding anything when you're the one that's twice said that I believe Moyes will play the same tactics, something I've never said.