10GB vram enough for the 3080? Discuss..

[LeMson]

What a sad discussion the console comparisons are, PC Master Race is sad who cares about console ports. FS2020 at 1440p and 4k ultra is pushing over 10Gb vram useage 3rd graph -> https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pag..._graphics_performance_benchmark_review,4.html

Proper PC games will continue to push boundaries.

 

[opethdisciple]

What a sad discussion the console comparisons are, PC Master Race is sad who cares about console ports. FS2020 at 1440p and 4k ultra is pushing over 10Gb vram useage 3rd graph -> https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pag..._graphics_performance_benchmark_review,4.html

Proper PC games will continue to push boundaries.

And yet the Radeon 7 with it's 16GB vram only manages 24fps when even a 2080 Super with 8GB manages 29fps and the 2080ti with it's only 11GB manages 35fps.

I think there's a lot of things at play when we talk about vram. Some games will use it all up just because it's there. Doesn't mean you gain anything from it.

 

[dankeeys]

What a sad discussion the console comparisons are, PC Master Race is sad who cares about console ports. FS2020 at 1440p and 4k ultra is pushing over 10Gb vram useage 3rd graph -> https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pag..._graphics_performance_benchmark_review,4.html

Proper PC games will continue to push boundaries.

Like i said previous, Horizon Zero Dawn is using / utilizing / requesting close to 8gb of my vega 56's total vram at high settings 1920x1200, currently.

 

[james.miller]

Yeah but last gen's consoles will no longer be the benchmark.

The PCMR won't be able to get excited/aroused about trouncing an XBone if the XSX is giving a better experience than their £2000 PC

Consoles making expensive PCs look terrible VFM when it comes to gaming shocker Look, I've said from the beginning that the memory comparison is pointless but apparently that's ignoring some imaginary elephant OR something. NO, i'm saying they are significantly different enough that a direct comparison doesn't work. People keep mentioning the 'PC Master race' but I'm not seeing that here. I'm seeing a lot of blinkered explanations of console hardware and embellished thoughts on PC memory usage though. You need 16gb to compensate for OS bloat vs a console with 8Gb? That reserves 3Gb of that 8 for the OS and has the share the remaining 5gb with the GPU as well ?? ridiculous.

 

[UEX]

What a sad discussion the console comparisons are, PC Master Race is sad who cares about console ports. FS2020 at 1440p and 4k ultra is pushing over 10Gb vram useage 3rd graph -> https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pag..._graphics_performance_benchmark_review,4.html

Proper PC games will continue to push boundaries.

The issue really is that we are talking about giving a current gen GPU 10Gb at the end of the day arent we? We have no idea how this generation of cards will handle VRAM allocation in realtime and we wont until the benchmarks come out. There is absolutely no reason to assume that FS2020 using 9Gb VRAM, at 4k, on a 2080Ti, wont use, oh i dunno, 6Gb on a 3080. Literally there is no actual evidence out there atm. In fact it looks like its designed to use a linear amount based on availability, going by the graphs. Then the question becomes what is the knock on to performance? And is this offset by GPU grunt or simply design?

It is, imo, much more likely that vram usage in these games stays about the same ratio (usage vs max) and the performance change is in no way related in a real way. After all the Radeon VII with 16Gb RAM is definitely not outperforming the 2080Ti despite having more data in its Vram.

 

[dankeeys]

And yet the Radeon 7 with it's 16GB Vram only manages 24fps when even a 2080 Super with 8GB manages 29fps and the 2080ti with it's only 11GB manages 35fps.

Radeon 7, was sold as a work gpu that could game, not a good comparitive

 

[aoaaron]

And yet the Radeon 7 with it's 16GB Vram only manages 24fps when even a 2080 Super with 8GB manages 29fps and the 2080ti with it's only 11GB manages 35fps.

Thank you!

People keep talking as if VRAM is the end of the world but there already exists a monstrously good graphics card by AMD with heaps of VRAM.. that sadly gets its man handled and abused by the anaemic 8GB VRAM RTX 2080.

Even if AMD release GPUs with more VRAM.. the 3080 can clearly still have the potential to be far better than it.

 

[chroniclard]

Like i said previous, Horizon Zero Dawn is using / utilizing / requesting close to 8gb of my vega 56's total vram at high settings 1920x1200, currently.

Irrelevant without test data on any impact.

 

[dankeeys]

Irrelevant without test data on any impact.

Just my anecdotal real life observation mate, far from irrelevant in such context.

 

[aoaaron]

Like i said previous, Horizon Zero Dawn is using / utilizing / requesting close to 8gb of my vega 56's total vram at high settings 1920x1200, currently.

and on a 2080 at 4k, it uses 7.3GB of VRAM.

I think people need to do their homework on how VRAM works and when it actually does or doesn't bottle neck relative to the power of the GPU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgv83HxTJ5o&ab_channel=SadisticSweety

 

[EastCoastHandle]

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Eh? The fact that windows 10 reserves a tiny amount of VRAM (1gb in my case of 11Gb with a lot of video windows open) does not mean that "windows 10 bloat, installed applications etc" contributes in a meaningful way to VRAM requirements of a game, this has been accounted for. It goes back the my very original point that if it was required it would have been implemented. There is certainly room for a card with more vram but it really doesnt take away from the fact that 10Gb is clearly going to be enough. The 24Gb is for the crazy crap they are doing at 8k and potentially also for the card being split quadro style in soft for 2 virtual 12gb rigs, given where the world is going streaming wise.

Win10 bloat.
Full screen optimization and other Win10 standard operating features that run in the background. Such as prefetching, the antivirus, defrag, scheduled alerts, etc. Background apps one download such as discord and utility apps to sync your rgb lighting, etc. Even buffer memory for nic card. Also, visual effects at desktop. And that is by no means an exhaustive list just a precursor.

The point is that Windows 10 has bloat when compared to consoles. Therefore the use of the memory between the two is not equivalent.

Edit:
I almost forgot the most offending featuring Windows 10 is the standby memory list. In which we still use to this very day an app called intelligent standby list by Wagner in order to compensate for. It's not "as" required as in prior Windows 10 versions though.

Here let me quote my previous response to you. I've already addressed this.

The amount of Defending of Nvidia posted here os just sad really. For example, Nvidia clearly explained why they presented a 3080, flagship card, with just 10gb of vram. It was a cost saving.

But no, a flagship card is now equilevant to a console using 10gb of gddr6 out of 16gb because "nvidia knew". We aren't talking about a 3070 but a 3080. Sad

Next comes a circural argument that win10 doesnt use vram. And feign ignorance why win10 is bloat. Then claim that xbox using 12gb has an false equivalence to next gen console Uarch with 16gb. And now, win10 doesnt actual use all that ram (yes we know it's called a standby list which has caused stuttering in PC games for years now). Whis is also sad.

We haven't discussed what games will be ported over and how limiting it will be on pc yet.

But nvidia made sure that the only real option was there $1500 sku, the 3090. Either that or wait for them to decide when they will drop their to variants with more vram. Unless you willing to wait to see what RDNA 2 will offer

This is why consoles are so enticing right now. No worries about the game library and the cost should be relatively lower then a 3090 even though it's not official yet.

 

[dankeeys]

and on a 2080 at 4k, it uses 7.3GB of VRAM.

I think people need to do their homework on how VRAM works and when it actually does or doesn't bottle neck relative to the power of the GPU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgv83HxTJ5o&ab_channel=SadisticSweety

In fairness I did state in one of my posts that, requested vram does not equate to utilized vram...would you be happier had I further elaborated? I was simply detailing an observation.

 

[opethdisciple]

If vram becomes an issue for the 3070 and more importantly the 3080 they are handing an advantage to AMD this generation. Do you really think Nvidia would allow sales to go AMD's way so easily?

 

[LeMson]

If vram isnt an issue why did AMD sell say the 580 with 4gb and 8GB. Are they providing a useless extra 4GB of unneed vram, or are they seriously gimping the 4GB variant?

 

[aoaaron]

In fairness I did state in one of my posts that, requested vram does not equate to utilized vram...would you be happier had I further elaborated? I was simply detailing an observation.

No but it'd be nice if you were to quote VRAM usage for a specific game in the context of 'is this enough VRAM debate' to at least put more of a proviso and explanation on the point you're trying to illustrate, if you understand how VRAM works.

Your post by itself in isolation is misleading and could lead to people who might not know your post history to make it sound as if HZD needs 8GB of VRAM fully used at all times to function at 1080p, which doesn't seem to even be the case at 4k.

 

[dankeeys]

If vram isnt an issue why did AMD sell say the 580 with 4gb and 8GB. Are they providing a useless extra 4GB of unneed vram, or are they seriously gimping the 4GB variant?

I was gonna say similar pertinant to the 570 4 gb vs 8gb earlier mate. The 8gb variants have a much longer lifespand than the 4gb variants, more so now with high textures etc. Same as the suckers who bought the GTX 1060's especially the 3gb variants

 

[EastCoastHandle]

People, that was kept in check due to the method used by developers to create games. Now that is changing because gaming developers are tailoring their games to consoles bandwidth.

 

[aoaaron]

If vram isnt an issue why did AMD sell say the 580 with 4gb and 8GB. Are they providing a useless extra 4GB of unneed vram, or are they seriously gimping the 4GB variant?

Nvidia did it witht he GTX 670. Wasn't there a 2GB and 4GB variant or some rubbish like that? The smaller VRAM GPUs seem to become irrelavant at the same time as the larger VRAM GPUs. a RTX 3080 with 14GB of VRAM isn't going to last substantially longer than an RTX 3080 with 10GB VRAM. Outside of a few games which might hog VRAM (I can't think of any), both cards will age and become obsolete at a similar time.

VRAM has in the past historically been fairly redundant with the bandwitch being the most important factor.

Its only with the new console release and the architecture surrounding how they load textures that people are concerned there will be a texture revolution and game designers will now use mega-ammounts of VRAM.

Having gamed on my 2080 at 4k for 24 months, I can say VRAM hasn't been an issue but the bandwith and pure power has been.

 

[opethdisciple]

Thing is the 10GB on the 3080 isn't a million miles away from the amount of USABLE VRAM on the consoles.

They do not have 16GB usable vram that's for sure.

I think this whole direct storage/ RTX IO thing is the missing variable here but we do not have any games that use it or any benchmarks to look at yet.

Might not until next year either.

 

[UEX]

I was gonna say similar pertinant to the 570 4 gb vs 8gb earlier mate. The 8gb variants have a much longer lifespand than the 4gb variants, more so now with high textures etc. Same as the suckers who bought the GTX 1060's especially the 3gb variants

sure, im sure if i plugged in my 8Gb R9 290 itd still be super competetive at 4k.... This is still the logical fault in this argument, the relationship between vram quantity and performance is not linear. You can certainly have too little, as in 4Gb and 3Gb capacities. Where it throttles the GPU. But this is not evidenced as yet and could well be wrong.