RT is the future, but it's still not going to be a huge topic in this generation. RT will be used sparingly in the vast majority of games due to the consoles.
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10GB vram enough for the 3080? Discuss..
- Thread starter Perfect_Chaos
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There are tons of AAA games comming out with RT and DLSS. Yet more RAM is more important than RT performance. The current LONG list of RT games are here https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/games-support-nvidia-ray-tracing/
No it wont, Control, Metro Exodus and Cyberpunk are PC only and are full RT.
This PS5 demo uses full GI. "Global illumination," the more advanced form of ray tracing. On less than 10GB of vRAM.
The world of #DevilMayCry 5 Special Edition is brought to life with the latest Ray Tracing technology, powered by PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X.
DF Direct - Spider-Man: Miles Morales PS5 Gameplay Reaction - Ray Tracing, Image Quality + More!
This runs on a 1080ti.
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The claim is that 10GB will outlast the GPU. The 3080 can just about manage 1440p RT. In a few years we will have 60FPS 4K RT. Who would want to keep a 3080 then?
Don't be a Dave
The claim is that 10GB will outlast the GPU. The 3080 can just about manage 1440p RT. In a few years we will have 60FPS 4K RT. Who would want to keep a 3080 then?
Don't be a Dave
Yet again 1440p is with DLSS 2.1 a 4k @ 60fps experience, with image quality so close to the native 4k you wont tell the difference. A RTX 2060 can run control with all the RT features on at 4k with DLSS 2.0. 720p-1080p with DLSS creating the 4k image, it looks really good.
The 6800xt is very likely to have 29% lower RT performance than a 3080 and you get upscaling and sharping to get you to 4k.
Basically 4k RT @ 60fps is now on Turning. Future hardware will be able to overcome the current limits of Raytracing which is the low number of rays. The low SPP. The video covers how they overcome this issue currently. How denoising gets you close to the ground truth image.
Denoising for Ray Tracing
https://youtu.be/6O2B9BZiZjQ
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Where did you get the 29% lower RT performance figure from?
My post above has the link. https://www.thefpsreview.com/2020/1...short-of-nvidia-rtx-according-to-early-tests/
Those games are 'full RT'? Erm... what?
Associate
I don't think anyone is saying it's not important, but rather that there's realistic limits on how much you need or can make use of. Above that limit you're spending money for a bigger number, but you're not getting anything in return for it.
The NVMe SSD streaming will be massive in this next generation, but as you say not really about reducing vRAM requirements, it has more to do with load speed. The intention of this is to reduce load times, reduce reliance on CPU for decompression, and allow developers freedom to build large seamless worlds without having to constrain the player into slow moving elevators or loading corridors to stream in new assets.
The simple fact is we just do not use vRAM like a dumb cache anymore, with loads of assets sitting in there unused in case later on in the game level you might need it. Developers overcame this limitation more than a decade ago by learning to pre-fetch assets ahead of time and dump out unused ones out of memory as you move through the game space. DirectStorage is just about speeding that process up so that the techniques used to do this such as loading corridors are a thing of the past.
In modern games today vRAM is much more about what you have on screen right now, it's about space for assets and effects that increase your in-the-moment fidelity which is why as you turn up settings in game you increase the amount of vRAM used you also decrease your frame rate. You're giving the GPU more assets to work on in the moment and thus it has an impact on your frame rate. You can use games which are future proofed like Crysis Remastered and MS FS2020 to measure this, they cannot even reach 10Gb of vRAM in use and maintain playable frame rates, even on 3090.
Consoles have 16Gb shared and really 10Gb max for vRAM purposes. But my bet is that the GPUs in the consoles being kinda middle of the road, they wont be able to make effective use of 8Gb absolute tops. We've seen the performance of games like Dirt 5 in a technical analysis by Digital Foundry and if you want 1440p or 4k or 120fps then it has to strip back all the visuals. I agree devs will prioritize consoles first but they have performance concerns, they can't just use all the memory available if the game runs at 7fps. They can only use as much as allows them to maintain playable frame rates, a 3090 cannot make use of 10Gb of vRAM without running at like 15-25fps and that has about 3x the raw compute power as the consoles.
Metro Exodus is "Global illumination," the more advanced form of ray tracing. Also DLSS is implemented.
Control has a full implementation of RT and DLSS 2.0.
Cyberpunk 2077 is expected to be a full implementation of RT and DLSS.
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I think you need to be careful with the term "full" because it's a bit ambiguous. Many people would take that to mean a full scene rendered ray tracing like the marbles demo or with quake RT, where there's zero rasteriation and it's all path-traced. Those games you list use RT for certain effects like GI but not for rendering the entire scene.
Quake RT is pathtraced. Path tracing is a type of ray tracing. https://youtu.be/FewqoJjHR0A https://youtu.be/LAsnQoBUG4Q
Metro Exodus implements ray tracing through global illumination, where light emanates from the sun and the sky, bouncing once to light the game world more naturally than traditional rasterised techniques. This makes a huge difference to outdoor areas, as simulating rather than emulating creates new shadows, lights and colours that don't appear when ray tracing is turned off. However, indoor scenes - where the global illumination of the sun and sky aren't simulated - only see the benefit of screen-space ambient occlusion (SSAO) replaced by ray traced ambient occlusion.
Marbles demo is just a RTing demo with physics, performance took a back seat to quality. Control has all the same features. DLSS 2.0 is in this video at the end. https://youtu.be/NgcYLIvlp_k?t=138
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Soldato
Sarcasm?
I think he's being serious, we may need to send counsellor Troi in!
Stop exaggerating both the level of RT that has been implemented in games and what the impact will be on Big Navi for potentially being 20-30% slower. This generation it isn't going to make a significant difference.
I also think the future of RT is bright and have esposed the photorealism it will eventually bring, but with this generation the implementation is still going to be limited. RDNA2 is still powerful enough to do what it needs to do until the next gen hits.
Haha. Funny you say that as I am watching TNG at the moment, close to season 7 now
Control doesn't use full scene RT.
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Yes I know, path tracing is a type of ray tracing. I was purely saying that when you use the term "full" that it's ambiguous and many others take this to mean full scene ray tracing where each pixel is ray traced. Where as in most other cases what we have is some kind of blend of rasterization drawing the scene with certain effects using ray tracing on say reflective surfaces or certain lighting methods. I'm not making a judgement on what is correct, just trying to help clear up what was an obvious miscommunication due to ambiguity.
There are a number of types of rendering I have come across.
1. Rasterization. Just converts 3d into 2d for display on the CRT. You have to use lots of workaround to get around the limitations. Think shadow mapping, ambient occlusion etc
2. Ray casting. Doom 1 & 2 the original versions.
3. Ray tracing. Better than ray casting but still requires some graphical workarounds. Requires lots of performance, so needs optimizations like hybrid rendering on older hardware or slower hardware https://www.imgtec.com/blog/hybrid-rendering-for-real-time-lighting/. Think Control which fully uses the RT technoglgy from Nvidia cards but uses performance hacks like prebaked shadows (you can turn off some RT features or fall back completely to Rasterization, required for older hardware or performance). Even offline renders use hybrid rendering to get better images and increase performance. Full scene Ray tracing does not give a good rendered image. A Ray tracer has to cheat to get soft shadows, caustics and GI. So just ray tracing on its own is limited. Some workarounds are required for a better image quality and performance. Ray tracing can't do everything on its own. Control does use RT fully if you turn everything on and Metro Exodus uses GI outside and Ray traced AO inside https://youtu.be/yag6e2Npw4M?t=121. https://youtu.be/SrF4k6wJ-do?t=949
4. Path tracing. Can render the whole scene without the need for workarounds like in ray tracing. Path tracing fixes the issues with Raytracing but costs even more performance. You get soft shadows, caustics, colour bleeding https://youtu.be/7tZKtuJkFH4?t=1838 and GI. Still not a 100% model of the real world but better than ray tracing. Quake 2 RTX and Minecraft. But at least there are less cheats and hacks.
This is as close as I can get atm, I am not an expert in this subject.
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Soldato
One thing that has me slightly concerned is why AMD thought it was a good idea to put 16GB on all their cards.
Being the console hardware partner makes me think they know something we don't.
Unfortunately I have a Gsync monitor so I either get a 3080 or I wait for a card with more Vram.
It's good that it will be a few more months yet until I get my card as it gives me time to wait and see a bit longer.
On the flip side, AMD RT performance wont be as powerful as Nvidia's.
Unless I see the RTX 3080 as a 2 year investment and then upgrade again in 2023.
Being the console hardware partner makes me think they know something we don't.
Unfortunately I have a Gsync monitor so I either get a 3080 or I wait for a card with more Vram.
It's good that it will be a few more months yet until I get my card as it gives me time to wait and see a bit longer.
On the flip side, AMD RT performance wont be as powerful as Nvidia's.
Unless I see the RTX 3080 as a 2 year investment and then upgrade again in 2023.
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"full scene ray tracing where each pixel is ray traced." Every pixel can be ray traced. At 1080p I have seen posts where they stated 80 rays per pixel. Also when anything reflects, scatters, or refracts that's a new ray. They state this means SPP is much lower. So you need to use a denoiser to get a decent image.
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