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14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"


Top comment on video:

15:05"We already replaced a lot of customer's 13900k with 14900k and the issues don't seem fully resolved."

This statement is extremely telling. 14:56 "$1,000 extra" for support is insane and really tells the whole story here. The part is not reliable. I am sure a lot of conversations are happening behind the scenes here, but based on what I've seen, Intel has not committed to fixing the issue. We can hope that it is due to incompetence but more likely they do not want to admit fault here due to the cost of "making it right"Thanks for sharing this Wendell, it will be interesting to see other news around this topic in the coming weeks.
 
Glanza said:

Top comment on video:

15:05"We already replaced a lot of customer's 13900k with 14900k and the issues don't seem fully resolved."

This statement is extremely telling. 14:56 "$1,000 extra" for support is insane and really tells the whole story here. The part is not reliable. I am sure a lot of conversations are happening behind the scenes here, but based on what I've seen, Intel has not committed to fixing the issue. We can hope that it is due to incompetence but more likely they do not want to admit fault here due to the cost of "making it right"Thanks for sharing this Wendell, it will be interesting to see other news around this topic in the coming weeks.
Click to expand...

Replacing 13900k with 14900k? I've not heard of any widespread 13900k issues. I've used one since release with no stability issues. 14th gen however has had reports of instability, mostly related to motherboard manufactures overclocking the CPU's too high with auto/xmp settings, which is resolved with newer UEFI updates (Intel baseline profiles).

That said, I don't use my 13900k for gaming anymore, as my 7950X3D is just so superior in terms of performance and power consumption. Worlds apart.
 
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Dave2150 said:
Replacing 13900k with 14900k? I've not heard of any widespread 13900k issues. I've used one since release with no stability issues. 14th gen however has had reports of instability, mostly related to motherboard manufactures overclocking the CPU's too high with auto/xmp settings, which is resolved with newer UEFI updates (Intel baseline profiles).

That said, I don't use my 13900k for gaming anymore, as my 7950X3D is just so superior in terms of performance and power consumption. Worlds apart.
Click to expand...

The baseline profiles were at Intel's behest as a countermeasure to the behaviour witnessed by 13th and 14th-users, the source of the issue is still an unknown quantity.

During the vendor design phase, Intel did not impose strict restrictions on LLC settings. Instead, they offered "suggestions" or "recommendations" to ensure that all motherboards' VRMs met certain criteria. Their initial intention was positive, as they wanted motherboard vendors to have the flexibility to design based on their own requirements. However, due to recent issues with the 13th and 14th generations, Intel has asked all motherboard vendors to adhere more closely to these new specific instructions.

Ironically, as a result, following Intel’s instructions leads to higher core voltages, especially under load, compared to what users were previously accustomed to. This is because motherboard vendors had set the LLC lower than Intel's recommendations to provide users with lower temperatures while maintaining high performance.

There is no direct correlation between the crashing behaviour and increased power limits. If you care to watch the video, Wendel even explains that clients using W680-based motherboards experience instability with these CPUs. Setting Intel's new guidelines on Z790-based motherboards doesn't resolve the issue in a lot of cases for some users, either.
 
4 years of running a 5800X, i have never touched it, it gets stressed day in day out and not once has it thrown any kind of error or crashed doing anything.

Even when all 16 threads are hammering away at 100% i can still use the system watching Youtube, listening to Spotify, its still smooth and snappy.
 
humbug said:
4 years of running a 5800X, i have never touched it, it gets stressed day in day out and not once has it thrown any kind of error or crashed doing anything.

Even when all 16 threads are hammering away at 100% i can still use the system watching Youtube, listening to Spotify, its still smooth and snappy.
Click to expand...
Time to become a real man Humbug and buy my 7950X3D in two weeks time. You'll need a new motherboard and some DDR5 too, so get saving. ;)
 
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Why do company's still buy Intel system's?

They are buying these system and the support costs are thousands of $ higher than AMD, why? Because they keep crashing.... why? Why do they do this????

youtu.be

Intel has a Pretty Big Problem

Intel's 13900k's and 14900k's are crashing at an alarming rate? Why isn't anyone talking about it and what is Intel's solution?Forum Thread here: https://for...
youtu.be youtu.be
 
humbug said:
Why do company's still buy Intel system's?

They are buying these system and the support costs are thousands of $ higher than AMD, why? Because they keep crashing.... why? Why do they do this????

youtu.be

Intel has a Pretty Big Problem

Intel's 13900k's and 14900k's are crashing at an alarming rate? Why isn't anyone talking about it and what is Intel's solution?Forum Thread here: https://for...
youtu.be youtu.be
Click to expand...

Perhaps for the same reason you reposted the same video from a moment ago, because they can't help themselves lol.

humbug said:
4 years of running a 5800X, i have never touched it, it gets stressed day in day out and not once has it thrown any kind of error or crashed doing anything.

Even when all 16 threads are hammering away at 100% i can still use the system watching Youtube, listening to Spotify, its still smooth and snappy.
Click to expand...

As do a great number of 13th and 14th-generation users, thankfully. For the record, I want to thank you for this left-field post in what seems like record time after trying to correct some misinformation.
 
You're welcome ^^^

I've said it before and i'll say it again, i'll never buy one of these Hybrid CPU's, i don't want the CPU in my Desktop to resemble the one in my Phone, there are still problems with them in some game where you have to manually set thread priority or even turn off those silly E-Cores.
Multiple channels commenting on how they are very rough, to the point of behaving like they are broken in heavy productivity workloads.

For example...

youtu.be

SNAP - The Intel CPU Latency Story (Part 1 of 2)

I always thought Intel's CPUs were snappy, in fact that were the snappiest of snappiest, even vs Ryzen, where AMD have improved a lot over the years with the...
youtu.be youtu.be

At the time Intel was banging on about being a fraction of a fraction of a second faster at opening Google Chrome, ironically claiming to be the snappy smoothness king, because they didn't win in actual performance anymore, it might open Google Chrome 0.0020 seconds faster but if i'm scrubbing through a 4K video i'm trying to produce and it is made of more that 8 separate fines it feels frankly broken, in that video the text labels on those files disappearing is reminiscent of the Celoron D with its constant catastrophic cache stalls.

I get the sense with this that too many people, when it comes to Intel never seem to be able to correctly identify the problem, its not the CPU, it can't be the CPU, its an Intel CPU, its the software or its me.

And...

youtu.be

Intel has a Pretty Big Problem

Intel's 13900k's and 14900k's are crashing at an alarming rate? Why isn't anyone talking about it and what is Intel's solution?Forum Thread here: https://for...
youtu.be youtu.be

Yeah, the ambiguity here, Windell is right, when Motherboard vendors were caught juicing AMD's CPU's they said we know what the problem is and if you're effected we will see you right, and they did.
Intel are pretending they don't know what is going on, let's try throwing Motherboard vendors under the bus, maybe its you, lets throw our customers under the bus, maybe it us... but not really really us. If you have a problem who knows, we don't, its probably you or your motherboard, maybe its us, maybe you should RMA it and we will give you another one but because we don't know what it is it might also happen to that one, so it could still be you. :D

I've watch multiple Youtubers, Jay, HUB... talk about this in utter confusion not wanting to firmly put the blame on anyone, because the messaging coming out of Intel is ambiguous, months later that is still where we are at, no one knows if their CPU's behaviour is a problem with the CPU, the Motherboard or themselves, Tech Journalists can't tell you because they don't know either. And that's the way it will stay until the press forget about it.
 
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Welp, there's me not going Intel next Gen, also see the new boards don't have USB4 which is a big deal to me as my IO is nuts.

If Intel was offering more PCI lanes I would have gone for them, I need more PCI lanes
 
Silent_Scone said:
Wendel even explains that clients using W680-based motherboards experience instability with these CPUs. Setting Intel's new guidelines on Z790-based motherboards doesn't resolve the issue in a lot of cases for some users, either.
Click to expand...
It happening even on PCs that aren't using XMP and are running stock memory was pretty surprising too, though I suspect his assumption about the 'stock' behaviour of W680 boards is not accurate, because W680 is not a server chipset, it is just Z690 with a different number on it and ECC support enabled. The equivalent server chipset is C266 and those CPUs don't even have E-Cores in them, which is a surprising omission because AMD's Epyc 4004's CPUs smash them in multithread.
 
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Tetras said:
hough I suspect his assumption about the 'stock' behaviour of W680 boards is not accurate, because W680 is not a server chipset, it is just Z690 with a different number on it and ECC support enabled.
Click to expand...

He makes a lot of assumptions in the video as to the W680 boards - albeit he doesn't have a lot of information to go by. For example while I don't actually know in this case often boards like that which straddle the workstation or server markets may actually be all the same board produced by one partner and resold with minor BIOS changes by other brands (though usual with Supermicro they produce the hardware and others rebrand it). (Same with some laptops where often the principle board design and production are by Asus then minor tweaks/rebadging done by Samsung, etc.).
 
Rroff said:
He makes a lot of assumptions in the video as to the W680 boards - albeit he doesn't have a lot of information to go by. For example while I don't actually know in this case often boards like that which straddle the workstation or server markets may actually be all the same board produced by one partner and resold with minor BIOS changes by other brands (though usual with Supermicro they produce the hardware and others rebrand it). (Same with some laptops where often the principle board design and production are by Asus then minor tweaks/rebadging done by Samsung, etc.).
Click to expand...
Yeah, the whole video was basically: "he said/she said" without enough context to know what they're doing. Assuming that W680 boards have 'stock' behaviour is very likely to be mistaken. Though, the actual research he did with the game errors was maybe the most interesting part, except that there isn't enough detail on the configurations to know if there is any common feature.
 
humbug said:
You're welcome ^^^

I've said it before and i'll say it again, i'll never buy one of these Hybrid CPU's, i don't want the CPU in my Desktop to resemble the one in my Phone, there are still problems with them in some game where you have to manually set thread priority or even turn off those silly E-Cores.
Multiple channels commenting on how they are very rough, to the point of behaving like they are broken in heavy productivity workloads.

For example...

youtu.be

SNAP - The Intel CPU Latency Story (Part 1 of 2)

I always thought Intel's CPUs were snappy, in fact that were the snappiest of snappiest, even vs Ryzen, where AMD have improved a lot over the years with the...
youtu.be youtu.be

At the time Intel was banging on about being a fraction of a fraction of a second faster at opening Google Chrome, ironically claiming to be the snappy smoothness king, because they didn't win in actual performance anymore, it might open Google Chrome 0.0020 seconds faster but if i'm scrubbing through a 4K video i'm trying to produce and it is made of more that 8 separate fines it feels frankly broken, in that video the text labels on those files disappearing is reminiscent of the Celoron D with its constant catastrophic cache stalls.

I get the sense with this that too many people, when it comes to Intel never seem to be able to correctly identify the problem, its not the CPU, it can't be the CPU, its an Intel CPU, its the software or its me.

And...

youtu.be

Intel has a Pretty Big Problem

Intel's 13900k's and 14900k's are crashing at an alarming rate? Why isn't anyone talking about it and what is Intel's solution?Forum Thread here: https://for...
youtu.be youtu.be

Yeah, the ambiguity here, Windell is right, when Motherboard vendors were caught juicing AMD's CPU's they said we know what the problem is and if you're effected we will see you right, and they did.
Intel are pretending they don't know what is going on, let's try throwing Motherboard vendors under the bus, maybe its you, lets throw our customers under the bus, maybe it us... but not really really us. If you have a problem who knows, we don't, its probably you or your motherboard, maybe its us, maybe you should RMA it and we will give you another one but because we don't know what it is it might also happen to that one, so it could still be you. :D

I've watch multiple Youtubers, Jay, HUB... talk about this in utter confusion not wanting to firmly put the blame on anyone, because the messaging coming out of Intel is ambiguous, months later that is still where we are at, no one knows if their CPU's behaviour is a problem with the CPU, the Motherboard or themselves, Tech Journalists can't tell you because they don't know either. And that's the way it will stay until the press forget about it.
Click to expand...

I was having this issue with my 12700K on SC but weirdly this issue magically disappeared when i upgraded to a 13700K. I've no idea why but it's now silky smooth and behaves exactly like it did with the e cores disabled on my 12700K, such a weird one!
 
Hi all, can I confirm with any 14900K/KS owners whether you get some fairly serious downclocking under load (gaming) with the most recent bios's.

I seem to have better stability with the new bios but some serious clock changes, due to all the 'default' setting changes they made.
 
Tetras said:
It happening even on PCs that aren't using XMP and are running stock memory was pretty surprising too, though I suspect his assumption about the 'stock' behaviour of W680 boards is not accurate, because W680 is not a server chipset, it is just Z690 with a different number on it and ECC support enabled. The equivalent server chipset is C266 and those CPUs don't even have E-Cores in them, which is a surprising omission because AMD's Epyc 4004's CPUs smash them in multithread.
Click to expand...

Last time I checked, the W680 ASUS boards do not unlock power limits out of the box. There's also always been a warning when enabling these features. It's not a huge stretch to assume the parties mentioned in the video would have made sure these weren't enabled before releasing this information.

The behaviour is also observed from Wendel's secondhand accounts on Super Micro boards which, are not geared towards overclocking. Most users don't seem to understand that the rules for LLC were actually below Intel's spec before rolling out these new profiles. If that's the case, you're (royal you) already forming an opinion based on too little information. There are also plenty of cases where the CPU isn't stable out of the box.

humbug said:
You're welcome ^^^

I've said it before and i'll say it again, i'll never buy one of these Hybrid CPU's, i don't want the CPU in my Desktop to resemble the one in my Phone, there are still problems with them in some game where you have to manually set thread priority or even turn off those silly E-Cores.
Click to expand...
We'll leave it up to you and nobody else to try and make an argument for thread priority being better on AMD. I'm sure Intel will be sorry to lose your custom if they were to ever have had it in the first place. A veteran of experience we can only all but admire :D
 
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Silent_Scone said:
The behaviour is also observed from Wendel's secondhand accounts on Super Micro boards which, are not geared towards overclocking.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I could understand Super Micro boards going easy on the settings and at least in ServeTheHome's review it did respect the power limits for a non-K CPU.

Silent_Scone said:
It's not a huge stretch to assume the parties mentioned in the video would have made sure these weren't enabled before releasing this information.
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure about that. From what he said, it wasn't clear that he had established what settings they were using and if he had, I'd have thought he would have said so directly rather than talk in general terms about how he expects W680 to behave. I actually find it surprising they'd want to buy many Super Micro boards because at least in the UK, they're really expensive and I'd have thought it would negate the advantage of using i7/i9 CPUs.
 
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