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Stop assuming MTL is for the desktop in the first place.
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14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"
- Thread starter Dave2150
- Start date
Intel Meteor Lake-S desktop CPUs to feature 20 PCIe Gen5 lanes, Z890 platform to support WiFi-7 - VideoCardz.com
Intel Meteor Lake desktop platform with more PCIe lanes With rumors about the cancellation of the Meteor Lake-S desktop series, one must not forget that the platform specs must have been already shared with certain Intel partners. This does not confirm or debunk what will happen to the next-gen...
videocardz.com
Intel Meteor Lake-S desktop CPUs to feature 20 PCIe Gen5 lanes, Z890 platform to support WiFi-7
Z870 launch date rumoured as Q2 2024 - if true AMD should have the gaming performance crown for a very long time with Zen4 X3D.
Perhaps they will release Golden Cove (Intel 7 process) and Intel 4 process CPUs on the new desktop on the LGA-1851 socket, both as part of the 14th gen?
Intel 4 could be used for the mid/low end 6 core CPUs (with or without e-cores).
Intel 4 could be used for the mid/low end 6 core CPUs (with or without e-cores).
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Intel Meteor Lake-S desktop CPUs to feature 20 PCIe Gen5 lanes, Z890 platform to support WiFi-7 - VideoCardz.com
Intel Meteor Lake desktop platform with more PCIe lanes With rumors about the cancellation of the Meteor Lake-S desktop series, one must not forget that the platform specs must have been already shared with certain Intel partners. This does not confirm or debunk what will happen to the next-gen...
Intel Meteor Lake-S desktop CPUs to feature 20 PCIe Gen5 lanes, Z890 platform to support WiFi-7
Z870 launch date rumoured as Q2 2024 - if true AMD should have the gaming performance crown for a very long time with Zen4 X3D.
It's also rumoured that since Intel won't launch anything new till mid 2024, they've decided to skip meteor lake and go straight to arrow lake for consumer desktop.
Perhaps meteor lake will be used just for laptops, or perhaps not at all.
Arrow lake is rumoured to be using TSMC 3nm for some of its tiles. The P cores in arrow Lake apparently have 50% higher IPC than the current golden cove P cores in Intel 13th Gen Raptor Lake
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It's likely Meteorlake/Arrow Lake will be using TSMC 3nm. If that's true, they'll be a node ahead of Zen4.
I don't think it's been confirmed what process Zen5 will be using yet?
Seems plans have changed, hence new rumors of Intel using TSMC 3nm for CPU tiles.
Intel can’t get its production working. Transistor density is irrelevant when you can’t build anything competitive.
Licensing Zen on TSMC 7nm would be better than what Intel are doing at the moment, which is pretending they have an equivalent nodes to TSMC.
I think they will produce similar chips for desktop to the Intel 4 based Meteor Lake mobile CPUs (6 cores + some E-cores). Presumably they will be clocked higher and use more power.
We know the Meteor Lake mobile chips are Intel 4 based (from what Intel has told us themselves), there's nothing to debate there.
If it's true that they aren't done with Intel 7 yet, they can do another Golden Cove refresh for the higher core count CPUs. They will probably want a product that can do 6ghz on all 8 cores, without exceeding temps of 100 Celsius...
Another possibility is basically 2 CPU tiles (compute dies), with 6 Meteor Lake P-Cores each. They could focus less on E-Cores, because I think by now, it's been established that these don't actually make up for the power efficiency problems of the overall design.
The 'Intel 3' process is the odd one out really. They don't seem to be planning to use this in any consumer products (apparently just Xeon). I guess they don't think it's worth investing in and would rather invest in '20A' for the generation after Meteor Lake.
We know the Meteor Lake mobile chips are Intel 4 based (from what Intel has told us themselves), there's nothing to debate there.
If it's true that they aren't done with Intel 7 yet, they can do another Golden Cove refresh for the higher core count CPUs. They will probably want a product that can do 6ghz on all 8 cores, without exceeding temps of 100 Celsius...
Another possibility is basically 2 CPU tiles (compute dies), with 6 Meteor Lake P-Cores each. They could focus less on E-Cores, because I think by now, it's been established that these don't actually make up for the power efficiency problems of the overall design.
The 'Intel 3' process is the odd one out really. They don't seem to be planning to use this in any consumer products (apparently just Xeon). I guess they don't think it's worth investing in and would rather invest in '20A' for the generation after Meteor Lake.
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Soldato
Intel Meteor Lake-S desktop CPUs to feature 20 PCIe Gen5 lanes, Z890 platform to support WiFi-7 - VideoCardz.com
Intel Meteor Lake desktop platform with more PCIe lanes With rumors about the cancellation of the Meteor Lake-S desktop series, one must not forget that the platform specs must have been already shared with certain Intel partners. This does not confirm or debunk what will happen to the next-gen...
Intel Meteor Lake-S desktop CPUs to feature 20 PCIe Gen5 lanes, Z890 platform to support WiFi-7
Z870 launch date rumoured as Q2 2024 - if true AMD should have the gaming performance crown for a very long time with Zen4 X3D.
So basically what's been known for a few months now, Meteorlake either cancelled or moved into Q1/2 of next year with a Raptorlake refresh happening in Q3 this year. Will still be interesting to see the refresh IMO.
Don't think Raptor Lake refresh will go ahead - what would they call it, 13th.5 gen? It would need ~100W more to get any noticeable increase, which would give them even worse PR over the 13900KS.
I think we'll just see big price cuts from Intel instead, as Zen4 X3D is just too good for gaming.
Soldato
They'd just keep the same 13th gen name and call it what is is, A refresh which would likely be a refined process maybe less power usage and same or slightly higher clocks, I'm thinking 13900KS but at lower power usage... 13990K maybe ? Kind of like Devils Canon 4790K from a few years ago.
If not then yeah a price cut until Q1-2 next year when we see Z870.
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Arguably Intel doesn't really need a new generation of desktop CPUs this year, given that AMD's X3D CPUs seem to only be slightly faster than the 13900K in some games, and generally a little slower in general performance with or without vcache. Considering that Intel hasn't announced any plans for this year, not releasing anything then cutting prices on the 13th gen does seem quite likely, and shouldn't be a problem. Presumably, Meteor Lake CPUs for laptops will still be able to launch this year.
AMD hasn't got any other new CPUs coming until late 2024, so Intel can afford to delay a new platform and Meteor Lake on desktops until next year. It seems quite unlikely that Intel would invest a lot of money into the Intel 4 process and new foundries, then choose to only use this process for mobile processors.
it would be weird if Intel was able to launch Emerald Rapids server processors (Intel 7) at the end of the year, then Granite Rapids (Intel 3 process) in late 2024, but then no Intel 4 desktop based CPUs in the same year.
Server roadmap:
There's also a series of E-core only server CPUs fabbed with Intel 3:
en.wikipedia.org
It seems inconceivable that Intel wouldn't have a new fab process (of their own design) in desktop CPUs by Q4 2024, ready to go up against Zen 5.
AMD hasn't got any other new CPUs coming until late 2024, so Intel can afford to delay a new platform and Meteor Lake on desktops until next year. It seems quite unlikely that Intel would invest a lot of money into the Intel 4 process and new foundries, then choose to only use this process for mobile processors.
it would be weird if Intel was able to launch Emerald Rapids server processors (Intel 7) at the end of the year, then Granite Rapids (Intel 3 process) in late 2024, but then no Intel 4 desktop based CPUs in the same year.
Server roadmap:
There's also a series of E-core only server CPUs fabbed with Intel 3:
Sierra Forest - Wikipedia
It seems inconceivable that Intel wouldn't have a new fab process (of their own design) in desktop CPUs by Q4 2024, ready to go up against Zen 5.
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Arguably Intel doesn't really need a new generation of desktop CPUs this year, given that AMD's X3D CPUs seem to only be slightly faster than the 13900K in some games, and generally a little slower in general performance with or without vcache. Considering that Intel hasn't announced any plans for this year, not releasing anything then cutting prices on the 13th gen does seem quite likely, and shouldn't be a problem. Presumably, Meteor Lake CPUs for laptops will still be able to launch this year.
AMD hasn't got any other new CPUs coming until late 2024, so Intel can afford to delay a new platform and Meteor Lake on desktops until next year. It seems quite unlikely that Intel would invest a lot of money into the Intel 4 process and new foundries, then choose to only use this process for mobile processors.
it would be weird if Intel was able to launch Emerald Rapids server processors (Intel 7) at the end of the year, then Granite Rapids (Intel 3 process) in late 2024, but then no Intel 4 desktop based CPUs in the same year.
Server roadmap:
There's also a series of E-core only server CPUs fabbed with Intel 3:
Sierra Forest - Wikipedia
It seems inconceivable that Intel wouldn't have a new fab process (of their own design) in desktop CPUs by Q4 2024, ready to go up against Zen 5.
When you consider the gaming power usage of the 13900k vs 7950X3D (and 7800X3D) it shows the urgency that Intel need 14th gen. We're talking 3 times the power draw in games, and even more in productivity.
With electricity prices being what they are, this is a HUGE issue which Intel are likely furious about.
You've changed man!