2008 Belgian GP - Race 13/18
- Thread starter rpstewart
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Not necessarily.
If Button is already the 4th highest paid driver in F1 (I can't remember where I heard that, but he is paid very well, for what he actually does), why bother trying to move to say McLaren, where he will have to really work his behind off, to simply keep up with Hamilton.
Similarly, why move to Ferrari, where once again, he will have to work very hard as he will be expected to be competing for the title, year in year out.
If he moved to a McLaren or Ferrari, his lack of motivation will show up pretty quickly (look at Kimi). Now if Kimi was in a Honda, picking up similar money to what he gets now (which is possible), then nobody would ever know that Kimi is actually underperforming.
Remember, Button is performing similarly to Barrichello, who we all know for a FACT was blown to smithereens by Michael Schumacher.
We also know that Alonso beat MS twice, to the title.
We also know that Hamilton and Alonso are on par with eachother, based on 2007.
Hence, if Button did move to either Ferrari or McLaren, it would stand to question that he would either be competing against Hamilton, who, by the above logic, is going to be a fair bit faster than Button.
Similarly if Button moved to Ferrari and met up with a fired up Alonso, he will probably be blown away by him, also.
Either way, moving to a top team will see Button found out quickly, as we will get to see just how good he really is. If he gets blown away by his team mate (which is likely), then after he moves away from Ferrari, his reputation as a top line driver will be finished.
At Honda, he gets a huge salary and his reputation is in relative tact. Year on year, his job is safe - why on Earth would he want to move?
PS. You cant compare the Button who won "that" race, witht he Button in 2008 - he has changed. He is demotivated and become a journeyman. He wants to use his fame to earn good money and sleep with as many women as possible. I dont believe this was the case, when he was doing well in F1.
I hear what you are saying, but even MS didnt do what Lewis is doing in his 2nd year in F1. Lewis would've almost doubled his team mate's total this year, had he not had points deducted.
And no Kubica only led the title race for 1 race or so. Over the last 2 years, Hamilton is the guy who has led the title race, for the most races. Last year, he led for most of the season, as he is doing so, this year.
Hamilton's success in the 2 years he has raced is prodigious.
You obviously didnt forget that this time last year Hamilton was over 20 points "dominating" the next non-Mclaren driver and still managed to screw it up
He did. But that was his first season. You cannot possibly expect him to make perfect racing decisions in his first year? The conditions were invariably wet and even the most experienced drivers have, in the past, messed up in those conditions.
Those 30-60 second winning margins are a thing of the past (at least for the forseeable future). The FIA have tightened up the regs to such an extent that most of the cars are very very similar to one another, meaning that its difficult for a team to make a car that is 1s/lap faster than any other car on the track. In 2002/03, it was possible. Now it isnt. In 2008, winning, even by 20 secs is considered a dominant win. Obviously the margin will be larger if your main rivals drop out.
If they can get away with penalising McLaren erroneously while everyone is watching then I am sure he wont bat an eyelid at penalising McLaren behind the scenes as it were.
I agree for the most part. I said to a friend a few races ago that JB had seemed to have given up. It's a shame too, but I beleive he believes his team will deliver and they're paying him the money to keep his valued input.
I disagree with MS blowing Barrichello to smithereens. I remember a few races where it was MS and Barrichello 1-2 and the only thing keeping Barrichello behind was team orders. OK it wasn't every race but Barrichello was certainly up there with MS at the time.
I feel it's a shame the racing is very much a business before it is a sport. There needs to be a balance. Maybe next years regs will bring the teams clother together and we will see some new faces getting into the top 3 on driving and not just becasue of strategy and retirements, which is what gave Button "that" win I beleive.
I disagree with MS blowing Barrichello to smithereens. I remember a few races where it was MS and Barrichello 1-2 and the only thing keeping Barrichello behind was team orders. OK it wasn't every race but Barrichello was certainly up there with MS at the time.
I feel it's a shame the racing is very much a business before it is a sport. There needs to be a balance. Maybe next years regs will bring the teams clother together and we will see some new faces getting into the top 3 on driving and not just becasue of strategy and retirements, which is what gave Button "that" win I beleive.
but jenson beat villeneuve and villeneuve beat schumacher and schumacher beat alonso 4 times so by that logic jenson is better lol
seriously you cant really compare drivers like that
It is very similar, the only and key difference is that Alonso slipstreams Klien again down a long straight where the advantage is found. For Hamilton there was no slipstreaming or long straight to gain an advantage to overtake again. He found his because Kimi didnt defend appropriately and he outbroke him.
I don't see why it should be reduced to a fine tbh.
IMO there are 3 things that can be said about it
1. He gained no advantage cutting the chicane
2. He gained and advantage, but gave it back immediately
3. He gained an advantage.
For 1 and 2 there should be no penalty applied, quite rightly. But for 3 the penalty is a standard drive through penalty for it.
So if they appeal and win, they should get no punishment.
Yep, and also remember that in those days there was a definate difference between the equipment given to MS compared to RB.
I think Heikki is more outclassed by Lewis today than Rubens was to Schumi knowing that Schumi was the firm #1 driver with Rubens a clear support driver (with inferior equipment)
that is so not true
only once in brazil did michael have the new car and rubens never and that was a gamble on michaels part as it was a bit untested in fact he developed an oil problem but adapted his lines to counter it and still won the race
there was quite a few times that michael would take rubens car from him if michael did not like his chassis lol so off course michael got what he wanted but the cars were the same
I'm not sure how many races they raced together, but out of the many, in only a few did it look like Barrichello was able to compete. In most of the races, Barrichello would finish more than a place away (eg. if MS finished first, Barrichello didnt finish in 2nd, a place behind). When MS needed to be quick, he was quick and Barrichello didnt have any answer.
I think that single race that Button won was partially wet, hence, driver ability came into the fray. Rain is a great equaliser. However, in that season, Button was regularly making the podium, so the fact that he happened to win a race in that season, wasnt out of the ordinary. In 2008 or 2009, for Button to come from nowhere to win a race, would definitely be out of the ordinary and be unlikely. IMO, like Irvine, he is just collecting as much money as he can before he retires. Of course, there is nothing wrong with that - we see it in other professions/sports all the time. I do it myself.
Undertaking under yellows is solidly documented as not being allowed. Its not comparable to the questionable penalty Hamilton has received.
In what way did Jenson beat Villeneuve. I can't remember that far back, with the minor placings.
Villeneuve did beat MS to the title, but only when Ferrari were still developing their car. Once Ferrari had fully developed a title winning car, Villeneuve would not have been able to beat MS. Similarly, Villeneuve would not have been able to beat MS in his all-conquering Bennetton (94/95).
MS beat Alonso in the driver standings (4 times, was it?) when Alonso was up and coming, but once Alonso "made it", MS didnt have an answer. In 2005, Ferrari had some serious problems, but in 2006, I think it was a fair fight, which Alonso won. In fairness, MS was coming to the end of his career.
And no, Jenson is not better than Alonso or MS. There is MASSIVE difference in class.
For once we agree
Also there are other factors to consider that de-motivates a driver like being a contractual no2. That must really impact the desire, such as Rubens. It must really hit hard to know no matter what happens your a rear gunner.
In no way am I saying rubens is better than MS but I think the results are flattering because with Ferrari's then reliability and domination all rubens had to do was race at 60% and come second. I think that mindset then effects him once he does have to race hard.
I think a lot of motivation is lost when the team publically backs the other guy and the full weight of the programme is behind driver no1.
Also, if Glock were fighting for a race win, then he might not have laid down so easily and accepted the penalty. Also, he isnt fighting for the WDC, as Hamilton is, where every point may count.
By the same token Renault had stopped developing engine. Wheel to wheel MS couldn't get near villeneuve for quality. Which is why MS never took him on in the same car despite Villeneuve offering to drive for free.
Jacques would have beaten MS in the cars of 95 if he was in a williams of Hill. Jacques problem is the cars changed from 98 to a format he couldn't live with. The older school cars of the early 90's would have suited him far better.
Villeneuve would have dealt with the wheel to wheel tussles much much better than Hill did.
I'm looking at Wikipedia right now.
In 2000, Barrichello, finished a single place behind MS in 3 races.
In 2001, he finished a single place behind MS in 4 races.
2002 - 7 races
2003 - 0 races
2004 - 8 races
2005 - 4 races
So, in a total of 6 seasons, Barrichello, wouldve been prevented from finishing ahead of MS a total of 26 times, out of a possible 102 races (approx). What about the other 76 races?
I do understand that in many cases he wouldve been prevented from finishing ahead of MS, however, in the vast majority of the races, this was not the case. He finished well away off of MS.
Of course, now we bring the psychological element into this, which cant be quantified.
Every point counts to the lower teams. Possibly more so to the lower teams than the higher up teams.
I doubt it. Though in 1994, MS did have lots of points taken away from him, so maybe. In 1995 though, MS didnt have any points deducted and I doubt any driver in the World wouldve been able to stop MS.
I think you are seriously overating Villeneuve. He wasnt "that" good and definitely not in the same league as MS. His father was though.
A good driver will adapt to the car, no matter how it is set-up. We have seen MS do this throughout his career. We have also seen Alonso move from Renault to McLaren and be competitive in both. You can't really say that Villeneuve's driving style didnt suit the newer cars. Its upto him to get the most out of the car. Thats the job of a (top) driver.
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