2008 Japanese GP - Race 16/18

Dutch Guy said:
And lets be honest, what Massa did was way worse than what Hamilton did yet both get a similar penalty :confused:
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Hamilton - tanked way too far into the braking zone for T1 after getting a poor start. Pulled into the path of his own team mate, panic-braked so hard that he ruined his tyres (presumably what sent him off the road just a little further round the lap), went sailing off to the outside of the track and caused a small amount of chaos.

Massa - went into the chicane too deep, tried to hang on to it rather than take the escape road and lose ground. Ended up in a position where hitting Hamilton was almost inevitable, did so.

I wouldn't have said "way worse", but definitely worse since he actually made real contact with Hamilton. But what can you do? Options are a 10 sec penalty or a drive-through. Was it really 10 sec penalty material?

Now, if they had several different variations - drive-through, stop-go, 5 seconds, 10 seconds, entire lap, then grid penalties for the next race if the incident comes too late in the afternoon - then you could make the punishments actually fit the crime.
 
JRS said:
I wouldn't have said "way worse", but definitely worse since he actually made real contact with Hamilton. But what can you do? Options are a 10 sec penalty or a drive-through. Was it really 10 sec penalty material?
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There are enough options as there doesn't seem to be any fixed penalty, they could have given Hamilton a fine as a 'last warning' and Massa a drive-thru or Hamilton a drive-thru and Massa a 10 second stop-and-go or no penalties at all
 
sunama said:
Or, like in years gone by, just put them both down as being racing incidents and get on with the racing.
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As people are so fond of pointing out to me, those days are gone. We're in the caring, sharing era of F1 now where the cars and tracks make it hard to overtake and then you get punished when you do overtake. We're in an era where the governing body is actually giving serious consideration to standardised engines and standardised aero pieces. Where every track is designed by the same bloke. Where innovation is bad and parity is good.

Colin Chapman must be turning over in his grave.
 
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71398

Oh dear. Differing fuel levels and strategies are the only thing that bring cars close together and provides any sort of uncertainty in racing. If they ban them, they may aswell just hand out points for qualifying results and not bother runnign the race. Qualifying with race fuel and then not refulling during the race... surefire way to make for boring as hell racedays...
 
Skeeter said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71398

Oh dear. Differing fuel levels and strategies are the only thing that bring cars close together and provides any sort of uncertainty in racing. If they ban them, they may aswell just hand out points for qualifying results and not bother runnign the race. Qualifying with race fuel and then not refulling during the race... surefire way to make for boring as hell racedays...
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Are you joking? It would mean people would need to be a bit more creative rather than just waiting 'til the pits. Banning refuelling would be a great move, I absolutely hate it. Now all we need is to go back to tyres which last the whole race.
[Michael Schumacher]Honestly[/Schumacher] Why do you watch F1? You seem to pick up on the negatives of everything and never focus on positives.
 
I would like to see a 1 hour race on saturday and a 1 hour race on sunday where the starting order is the reverse of the saturday result.
 
Skeeter said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71398

Oh dear. Differing fuel levels and strategies are the only thing that bring cars close together and provides any sort of uncertainty in racing. If they ban them, they may aswell just hand out points for qualifying results and not bother runnign the race. Qualifying with race fuel and then not refulling during the race... surefire way to make for boring as hell racedays...
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Nope, sorry. Going to sound a dissenting note on that one. Refuelling has added **** all to Formula One since it was brought back for '94 except adding the danger of a potential pit fire and reducing the challenge. With no refuelling, cars will start seriously heavy. You'll see more action as people fancy their chances early on, some will hang back to try and save their stuff for later on. I don't hold with having shorter races, though. That's a bad idea. Giving points for pole, fastest lap, leading a lap and leading the most laps similar to the way NASCAR gives points out would be a good idea.

If F1 wants to show how green and environmentally aware it is, then banning refuelling is the way forward. Not bloody green stripes on the tyres. Give the teams a fuel limit, and watch them sacrifice power for fuel economy.
 
El_Watcher said:
I know that LH isn't perfect, but I support him because he is British, just the same as I would support Button if he had a good car, or Coulthard if he wasn't drawing his pension.
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So its also dependent on if they are in a decent car?!?

Wow I wish I was as loyal as you - definitely envious the quality in character you are showing - someone remind me if we have another WW and have to enlist that this bloke isnt in the same regiment as me. Obviously though you would only join in when we were winning though...

Why tarnish the idea of nationalism? :rolleyes:

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Ok, another take on the "keep the cars on the circuit as much as possible theme" would be to limit the number of pit-crew allowed in the pitlane.

At the moment, if you put the same number of people into a classroom as a standard pit-stop, everyone would be up in arms about overcrowding.

Limit it to 8 or 10 people, then see what happens to strategies.
 
ps3ud0 said:
So its also dependent on if they are in a decent car?!?

Wow I wish I was as loyal as you - definitely envious the quality in character you are showing - someone remind me if we have another WW and have to enlist that this bloke isnt in the same regiment as me. Obviously though you would only join in when we were winning though...

Why tarnish the idea of nationalism? :rolleyes:

ps3ud0 :cool:
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I think he means that Hamilton is the most likely Briton to "make it". It would be great to support someone like Button or Coulthard, but as he explained, they are going nowhere fast.

Supporting losers is a very British thing. If you goto other parts of the World, losers dont receive much support, winners however, are revered.

I know it sucks, but thats life.
 
Sadgeek said:
Ok, another take on the "keep the cars on the circuit as much as possible theme" would be to limit the number of pit-crew allowed in the pitlane.

At the moment, if you put the same number of people into a classroom as a standard pit-stop, everyone would be up in arms about overcrowding.

Limit it to 8 or 10 people, then see what happens to strategies.
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What difference would this make, apart from slower pit stops?
 
You're onto something there Sadgeek. One person on each wheel. One person on the front jack. One on the rear. And the front jackman getting clear would be the signal for the driver to drop the hammer and scoot out into the pitlane.

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sunama said:
What difference would this make, apart from slower pit stops?
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Longer stops coupled with no refuelling would mean another strategy option would start to become desirable - bolt on a set of the hardest compound tyres you've got and try and make the race on one or no stops while others stop more times. Of course, it would need that retarded tyre rule about using two different compounds during a race to change....
 
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Skeeter said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71398

Oh dear. Differing fuel levels and strategies are the only thing that bring cars close together and provides any sort of uncertainty in racing. If they ban them, they may aswell just hand out points for qualifying results and not bother runnign the race. Qualifying with race fuel and then not refulling during the race... surefire way to make for boring as hell racedays...
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What? F1 was much more exciting without fuel stops in the past
 
Skeeter said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71398

Oh dear. Differing fuel levels and strategies are the only thing that bring cars close together and provides any sort of uncertainty in racing. If they ban them, they may aswell just hand out points for qualifying results and not bother runnign the race. Qualifying with race fuel and then not refulling during the race... surefire way to make for boring as hell racedays...
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Woohoo no refuelling PLEASE!!!

It would mean current restrictions are much less harsh like not being able to enter the pit lane when the safety car is out, since you can survive a lap or 2 on bad tyres.

I still want points to be given for poles and fastest laps as it would mean when you are out of the first 8 (like Hamilton was) getting fastest lap in race meant you still got something out of the race.

With points for pole it could mean the back of the grid teams might go hell for leather and just do qualifying on qualifying fuel and really shuffle the grid about. Obviously we would need to change the qualifying format to allow them to participate (well they never get past the first 2 quali stages atm). It also mean the first few laps would be tremendous with the proper race contenders having to get past these guys...

Yes it sounds like a farce but it would make F1 more watchable for me - the drivers arent monkeys (sic) and I doubt it would cause any real safety issues...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Usually referring to taking something ad verbatim (like bad spelling/grammar). It can also be used to reference quotes. I just used it to remind people of Hamiltons opinion of back of the grid drivers - which no doubt you fully understood ;)

P.S. Damn you JRS stop stealing my ideas - though the whole leading lap crap is bull and should be left in America and their ovals :p...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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I think differing fuel loads is good. It adds another variable and makes things more interesting for fans. I believe the reason it was introduced in the first place (along with the skid plate minimum wear rule) was because of Senna's death. Clearly the FIA believed it was all due to the ride height of the car.

I would advocate having a cap on the number of pit crew allowed though. One man to do each wheel would be pretty neat. Like a lot of other motor racing series.

Pit stops are too short now IMO. If you blink you almost miss it. That's a shame. Pit stops are one of the most exciting parts of the television experience, apart from overtaking. They should do everything they can to extend the length of pit stops.
 
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