2008 Japanese GP - Race 16/18
- Thread starter rpstewart
- Start date
It was Monaco in 2007. Remember it well. It was perhaps the first time that he really said something on camera that was a tell-tale sign of his arrogance.
And just to remind people that was just 2 months into his F1 career (just 4 races in) - he really isnt worth anyones admiration and its only out of professional courtesy that other drivers respect him - something he obviously cant reciprocate 
P.S. Anyone up for a BBQ? Its November 5th soon
(yes Im joking 
)
ps3ud0
P.S. Anyone up for a BBQ? Its November 5th soon
(yes Im joking )ps3ud0
I am all in favour of no-refuelling and slick tyres. Refuelling was brought in to encourage overtaking on the track, but it actually only encourages overtaking in the pits. Dont agree with making the races shorter though, they should just make the cars more efficient (am pretty sure i posted about this a while back).
So Ferrari cant refuel their cars properly and suddenly refuelling goes out the window...
I've said it before....
That gives you three possible options
1) The Alain Prost approach. Look after the tyres until 60% distance, change them and then go hell for leather to the finish
2) The Senna approach. Go hell for leather and need new tyres before half distance. Try and keep the second set in one piece whilst charging on a lighter fuel load
3) The "what the heck is Ivan Capelli doing in the lead" approach. Tiptoe around on the one set of tyres and hope that you can keep a decent place while the really quick charge back after their stops.
- Ban refuelling
- Use a single compound of slick tyre which will, if you're careful, just last a race distance
- Le Mans style pitstops - only 4 people in the pit lane. If you want more then use the garage.
That gives you three possible options
1) The Alain Prost approach. Look after the tyres until 60% distance, change them and then go hell for leather to the finish
2) The Senna approach. Go hell for leather and need new tyres before half distance. Try and keep the second set in one piece whilst charging on a lighter fuel load
3) The "what the heck is Ivan Capelli doing in the lead" approach. Tiptoe around on the one set of tyres and hope that you can keep a decent place while the really quick charge back after their stops.
Soldato
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Or just not turned into the side of Hamiltons car. For all your guff about the implausibility of him perfectly judging such a 'brilliant' move, that is what he quite clearly did.
Soldato
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I don't get why people are so defensive over that move on Hamilton, both drivers stuffed up extremely badly in their own special ways.
None of them looked like champion material at the start of that race, both deserve to be slated.
None of them looked like champion material at the start of that race, both deserve to be slated.
Huh? They reintroduced refuelling at the start of '94. Roland and Ayrton were still alive at that point.
But yes, the plank came in post-Imola to force the teams into keeping the cars off the deck.
Monkey Puzzle said:
Do me a favour, go find a vid of it on Youtube and look at it again. At what point does Massa 'turn into' the side of Hamilton? They clash right on the apex of the second bit of the chicane. Massa is drifting back onto the track (on account of him being on the grass and curb, and somewhat lacking in grip), and Hamilton is tight up to the curb. Contact was nigh-on inevitable once Hamilton decided not to consider the possibility that Massa might still be trying to hang on inside of him.
It was a bit dumb of Massa to try it, and he was punished for it. He should have taken the escape road at the entry to the chicane and let Hamilton by. It was also slightly silly for Hamilton to be pushing his way by Massa given that his tyres were knackered after his Turn 1 shenanigans. And if you think that Hamilton wouldn't have done exactly the same thing as Massa if the positions had been reversed, then you're a bloody fool
Massa made far more mistakes in that race I agree. Personally I think this is encouraging for the title race. I thought Massa would have a fairly stronger head than Hamilton but so far that doesn't seem to be the case.
Massa had no reason to go up the escape road none at all, he could easily have made that corner without cutting the track and hitting Lewis. Just as Lewis could have made the corner at Spa, neither of them wanted to back off though and paid the price.
Soldato
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Huh? They reintroduced refuelling at the start of '94. Roland and Ayrton were still alive at that point.
But yes, the plank came in post-Imola to force the teams into keeping the cars off the deck.
Do me a favour, go find a vid of it on Youtube and look at it again. At what point does Massa 'turn into' the side of Hamilton? They clash right on the apex of the second bit of the chicane. Massa is drifting back onto the track (on account of him being on the grass and curb, and somewhat lacking in grip), and Hamilton is tight up to the curb. Contact was nigh-on inevitable once Hamilton decided not to consider the possibility that Massa might still be trying to hang on inside of him.
It was a bit dumb of Massa to try it, and he was punished for it. He should have taken the escape road at the entry to the chicane and let Hamilton by. It was also slightly silly for Hamilton to be pushing his way by Massa given that his tyres were knackered after his Turn 1 shenanigans. And if you think that Hamilton wouldn't have done exactly the same thing as Massa if the positions had been reversed, then you're a bloody fool
Wonder what penalty he would have gotten though.
Its a shame Massa wasnt level headed and had the nouce to remember Hamiltons 1st turn move and consider that at minimum his braking would be affected and at worst that Hamilton needed to change those tyres.
Both scenarios would have meant him passing Hamilton eventually - especially looking at how well the engine was doing down the pit straight (loved to have seen Hamilton trying to late brake on the 1st turn again and just drifting into the gravel)...
Massa probably ruin his race more than Hamilton did considering what happened in the first lap...
ps3ud0
Both scenarios would have meant him passing Hamilton eventually - especially looking at how well the engine was doing down the pit straight (loved to have seen Hamilton trying to late brake on the 1st turn again and just drifting into the gravel)...
Massa probably ruin his race more than Hamilton did considering what happened in the first lap...
ps3ud0
Banning refuling and having all cars start on the same fuel load will ONLY work if there can be competitive racing between cars with exactly the same fuel and tyres... something that F1 currently doesnt have. At the moment, they start the race in outright pace order as determined by qualifying (well, the top 10 anyway), and then they just spread out (unless people play schoolboy and slide all over the place). Banning refuling would not work in the current F1. They need to allow qualifying with low fuel to produce more mixed up grids (just look at who has been fastest in Q1 and Q2 this year, Glock, Vettel, Bourdais, etc etc etc) If you could qualify on low fuel then we would have seen all them posisbly on pole, wheras now its basicalla a Ferrar or a McLaren. You would also need to have some form of pitstops as using one set of tyres for a whole race was also a bit boring. I like the idea that F1 has its 'F1 Style Pit Stops' where a team of uber fast men change 4 tyres in 4 seconds. It is an integral part of F1. I also like this new 2 tyres rule, it allows people to have differing strategies and also plays to different people. One persons driving style may suit the hard while anothers suits the soft. It removes the right off that we had with 2 tyre suppliers where at certain races Micheline drivesrs we going to strugle to get into the top 8, or Vice Versa. Basically, my opinion is:
- Reduce Aero Grip (2009 regs)
- Increase Mechanical Grip (2009 regs, slicks)
- remove qualifying with race fuel, but keep current 3 stage qualifying
- keep 2 tyre compounds
- promote close racing and overtaking
- Point for pole, point for fastest lap (for cars in top 10)
THEN, and only THEN, remove refuling. just removing refuling at the moment would basically make the race nothing more than an extension of qualifying. The fastest guy at the front, the slowest at the back, and they just spread.
I really miss the days when someone could go out on an abslute stomer of a qualifying lap, plonk it on pole, and then fill the car fat with fuel for the race making everyone esle bunch up behind them and fight past. At the moment its almost impossible to overtake a evenly matched or closely matched car, so if all cars are closely matched on even fuel, it would be even worse.
so, after all the rant, my opinion is: ban refulling after overtaking has been made much more possible.
- Reduce Aero Grip (2009 regs)
- Increase Mechanical Grip (2009 regs, slicks)
- remove qualifying with race fuel, but keep current 3 stage qualifying
- keep 2 tyre compounds
- promote close racing and overtaking
- Point for pole, point for fastest lap (for cars in top 10)
THEN, and only THEN, remove refuling. just removing refuling at the moment would basically make the race nothing more than an extension of qualifying. The fastest guy at the front, the slowest at the back, and they just spread.
I really miss the days when someone could go out on an abslute stomer of a qualifying lap, plonk it on pole, and then fill the car fat with fuel for the race making everyone esle bunch up behind them and fight past. At the moment its almost impossible to overtake a evenly matched or closely matched car, so if all cars are closely matched on even fuel, it would be even worse.
so, after all the rant, my opinion is: ban refulling after overtaking has been made much more possible.
Disqualified and banned for the remaining races, surely?
I mean, if the FIA were out to help Ferrari then that's what they'd do, right?
Aren't we having Slicks next year?