2008 Japanese GP - Race 16/18

I just don't think it will happen, for safety if nothing else. They'd need to put much larger fuel tanks in. Probably multiple tanks to balance the weight.

What would happen if someone had a crash along the severity of Robert Kubica's in Canada 2007? A fireball would be quite likely.

Don't think we want F1 going back to those days.
 
Im pretty sure the fuel they can put in now is not insignificant so I very much doubt increasing the tanks would reduce driver safety significantly. Its just a testament to the increases in safety that have happened over the last decade+...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
NathanE said:
I just don't think it will happen, for safety if nothing else. They'd need to put much larger fuel tanks in. Probably multiple tanks to balance the weight.
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The regs say the tank has to be in the safety cell so it'll be the same as during the early 90s - a large tank behind the driver just where it is now. Tanks at the moment are good for ~60% of race distance so it's not a huge increase.

NathanE said:
What would happen if someone had a crash along the severity of Robert Kubica's in Canada 2007? A fireball would be quite likely.
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No more likely than a fireball was in Kubica's crash. The tank would still be in the tub and would still be the explosion proof bag type, the fact that it's a bit bigger doesn't have much bearing on things.
 
rpstewart said:
I've said it before....

  • Ban refuelling
  • Use a single compound of slick tyre which will, if you're careful, just last a race distance
  • Le Mans style pitstops - only 4 people in the pit lane. If you want more then use the garage.

That gives you three possible options

1) The Alain Prost approach. Look after the tyres until 60% distance, change them and then go hell for leather to the finish

2) The Senna approach. Go hell for leather and need new tyres before half distance. Try and keep the second set in one piece whilst charging on a lighter fuel load

3) The "what the heck is Ivan Capelli doing in the lead" approach. Tiptoe around on the one set of tyres and hope that you can keep a decent place while the really quick charge back after their stops.
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This, this this!
 
sorry if a pearoast

but some very interesting onboard footage here

http://www.f1.com/news/headlines/2008/10/8530.html

notice

1) Hamiltons 50p shaped right front after the lock up
2) Could Hamilton have turned right before he did? I dont think so as was still locked up and/or understeering by the look of it. This is what the penalty was for as if you view from outside he seems to delay turning right to push Raikonnen wider.
3) What appears to be Massa getting thrown into Hamilton by the kerb (no steering input, all turning left)
4) The choice of camera angles by forumlaone.com
5) The unprecidented appearence of a set of contentious decisions displayed on the formulaone.com website for viewing (as far as I am aware)
 
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spoonz said:
2) What appears to be Massa getting thrown into Hamilton by the kerb (no steering input, all turning left)
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Oh, don't go there spoonz. On the whole, the country doesn't want to hear any theory that exonerates Massa from doing anything stupid, or illegal, or a combination of the two. They'd much rather stick to the current prevailing theory of "LOLOLOL MASSA SUCKS AND OUR LEWIS IS BEING ROBBED".

Even this forum (which on the whole has a fairly intelligent group of posters) has a bizarre anti-Massa vibe that I can't quite figure out. Yes, when he's poor he can have utterly dire days. Yes, he doesn't tend to win from anywhere other than pole. Yes, he made a bunch of mistakes in Japan. And Britain. And Singapore. And Malaysia.

But when he's quick....he's untouchable. And this is racing, after all - if you aren't quick, you aren't going to win much. Massa has what it takes to win this title, especially if the race the other day is an indication that Hamilton is about to completely lose his mindset. It's a quick turnaround for China, and I doubt McLaren are letting him slack off his sponsor and media duties - they'd much rather he lost the championship than have him not turn up to shake hands with and charm all those folks paying for the team to go racing.

Unless Hamilton goes into Brazil well ahead, he's in a lot of trouble.
 
JRS said:
Oh, don't go there spoonz. On the whole, the country doesn't want to hear any theory that exonerates Massa from doing anything stupid, or illegal, or a combination of the two. They'd much rather stick to the current prevailing theory of "LOLOLOL MASSA SUCKS AND OUR LEWIS IS BEING ROBBED".

Even this forum (which on the whole has a fairly intelligent group of posters) has a bizarre anti-Massa vibe that I can't quite figure out. Yes, when he's poor he can have utterly dire days. Yes, he doesn't tend to win from anywhere other than pole. Yes, he made a bunch of mistakes in Japan. And Britain. And Singapore. And Malaysia.

But when he's quick....he's untouchable. And this is racing, after all - if you aren't quick, you aren't going to win much. Massa has what it takes to win this title, especially if the race the other day is an indication that Hamilton is about to completely lose his mindset. It's a quick turnaround for China, and I doubt McLaren are letting him slack off his sponsor and media duties - they'd much rather he lost the championship than have him not turn up to shake hands with and charm all those folks paying for the team to go racing.

Unless Hamilton goes into Brazil well ahead, he's in a lot of trouble.
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Im "anti-massa" but i'm level headed enough not to let my allegiances muddy the facts. (unlike the the f.i.a.l) :D

I agree, Sunday is one shot chance for Hamilton. Last chance saloon. If he leaves China with anything less than Massa needing P1 or P2 and relying on him finishing more than one place behind he doesnt stand a chance IMO.
 
PS

I wonder if the F.I.A.L have considered Kovaleinen smashing Massa off.

What can they do? Does the rulebook account for this? They cant black flag Hamilton for example.

Surely they have thought of this as they way this seasons going I can see a a China grid of

1) Hamilton
2) Massa
3) Kovaleinen

and a first corner incident.

However, they can always see what happens and then modify the rules after depending if a silver or red car is disadvantaged.
 
JRS said:
Unless Hamilton goes into Brazil well ahead, he's in a lot of trouble.
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I'm forced to agree. I can't see the McLaren or Hamilton being able to muster enough performance to beat Massa or Raikkonen there. And I wouldn't call China a foregone conclusion either.

Massa might make lots of daft errors, but he tends to recover from them quite well. When Hamilton has an error or problem, more often than not he just fails to pull it back.
 
spoonz said:
I agree, Sunday is one shot chance for Hamilton. Last chance saloon. Unless he leaves China with Massa needing P1 or P2 and relying on him finishing more than one place behind he doesnt stand a chance IMO.
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Ah, but it won't end there will it? If he loses this title, it'll be by a small margin. And the usual suspects will wail and gnash their teeth and say that Spa is the root cause of it all. Not the points that he didn't get in Bahrain when he had that particularly bad day. Not the points that he didn't get in Canada after whatever the hell went wrong for him in that pitlane. Not the points that he didn't get in France on account of a scrappy, pressurised drive. Nothing at all to do with him not being good enough at Monza to get a larger haul. And it won't be down to his 'interesting' time in Japan.

Nope. Just down to that stewards decision at Spa. Now, I thought that one was completely wrong as well (although some of you seem to keep missing that fact). But *if* he loses this title it won't be because of that. It will be because he just wasn't good enough.

Hell - all those decisions against him, this grand conspiracy by the FIA to gift the title to Ferrari, and he's still leading the championship! If we have no remotely contentious stewards decisions in the next two races*, and he still loses it, then I can't wait to see how y'all justify your bitching about it :) If Massa was to win the final two races, all Hamilton has to do is sit right behind him! If he loses it from here, even with all that has gone on this season, then he doesn't deserve it.

***edit***

* - unlikely, I know. But it could happen. Maybe.
 
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As much as I like Felipe and I support Ferrari, then I would be ok with Kubica somehow pulling the title out of the bag, if it's not Felipe to win it then I hope its Robert, what a great season he has had IMO, F1 is looking like it will be fantastic next season with 4 teams up for the title, Ferrari, McLaren, Renault and BMW, with some great talent behind the wheel. Kubica has been my driver of the season with Alonso closely followed, for me Massa and Lewis have made far too many mistakes.
 
JRS said:
Oh, don't go there spoonz. On the whole, the country doesn't want to hear any theory that exonerates Massa from doing anything stupid, or illegal, or a combination of the two. They'd much rather stick to the current prevailing theory of "LOLOLOL MASSA SUCKS AND OUR LEWIS IS BEING ROBBED".

Even this forum (which on the whole has a fairly intelligent group of posters) has a bizarre anti-Massa vibe that I can't quite figure out. Yes, when he's poor he can have utterly dire days. Yes, he doesn't tend to win from anywhere other than pole. Yes, he made a bunch of mistakes in Japan. And Britain. And Singapore. And Malaysia.

But when he's quick....he's untouchable. And this is racing, after all - if you aren't quick, you aren't going to win much. Massa has what it takes to win this title, especially if the race the other day is an indication that Hamilton is about to completely lose his mindset. It's a quick turnaround for China, and I doubt McLaren are letting him slack off his sponsor and media duties - they'd much rather he lost the championship than have him not turn up to shake hands with and charm all those folks paying for the team to go racing.

Unless Hamilton goes into Brazil well ahead, he's in a lot of trouble.
Click to expand...

Although I agree that Massa is very good, and Hamilton does make some mistakes it seems like people focus on Hamiltons mistakes more than anyone elses. You could say, that in a sense this forum has an anti-hamilton vibe in that mistakes such as throwing away his race in Japan will be remembered forever, especially if he doesn't win this year. Whereas Massas mistakes in Japan were just as silly, he did the same as Hamilton in a sense and lost it completely, he threw away a good result by being to aggressive just like Hamilton, and Massa is much more experienced in F1.

I think the anti-Massa vibe comes from the feeling that his position has been improved by the FIA, but I don't really hold this against Massa himself, as what happened between Raikkonen and Hamilton at Spa for example had nothing to do with him on track, but I can't help but think that maybe Massa wasn't afraid of being extra aggressive in Japan by feeling that the FIA would turn a bit of a blind eye.

I think if this year has shown us anything it's not the skill of Hamilton and Massa, but the ability of Kubica for some reason the camera doesn't seem to focus on him much even when he has had a great race. Maybe the ultimate team would be Alonso and Kubica in a Ferrari :).

This year I would be happy to see Hamilton win the championship because, except for the Ferraris pit he has given us the most entertainment like climbing up the field in Italy, and also it would be nice to see him win even despite the FIAs attempts to see otherwise. I like Massa, he is a good driver and seems a nice chap, but I don't want him to win this year, simply because we will never stop hearing about the controversy and it's already growing old, it would be all we would hear from the commentators for the rest of Hamiltons career so I'd prefer to see Massa win another season. But I'd be really pleased to see Kubica steal the title from underneath Hamiltons and Massas noses, that'd be great :).
 
regardless of ANY decisions gone before only one person made a first class t*t of himself on Sunday. I'm losing patience with him after all the "I've learned from last year" crap and then he does that.

Same again on Sunday I think, unless he suprises me. Its just too young too soon I think, experience under pressure.

I hope Im proven wrong and he has the drive of his life.
 
xen_ said:
I think if this year has shown us anything it's not the skill of Hamilton and Massa, but the ability of Kubica for some reason the camera doesn't seem to focus on him much even when he has had a great race. Maybe the ultimate team would be Alonso and Kubica in a Ferrari :).
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Can't work. Alonso needs someone who's a subservient Number 2 driver to work alongside - fast enough to take points off his rivals, yet not quick enough to challenge him and willing to accept that fact. I don't see Kubica in that role.

xen_ said:
This year I would be happy to see Hamilton win the championship because, except for the Ferraris pit he has given us the most entertainment like climbing up the field in Italy, and also it would be nice to see him win even despite the FIAs attempts to see otherwise. I like Massa, he is a good driver and seems a nice chap, but I don't want him to win this year, simply because we will never stop hearing about the controversy and it's already growing old, it would be all we would hear from the commentators for the rest of Hamiltons career so I'd prefer to see Massa win another season. But I'd be really pleased to see Kubica steal the title from underneath Hamiltons and Massas noses, that'd be great :).
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I go the other way with it. On balance - neither driver really deserves it, as they've been just plain poor at times. But Hamilton is lauded as being this superhuman Senna-esque genius at the wheel, and overall....he hasn't delivered on that. Massa is lauded as being.....Massa. Just as inconsistent as the race stewards, but awfully fast when on form. I'd honestly rather see him win this one and Hamilton win another year - Hamilton will have many more chances at it, this year seems to be Massa's best shot.

But yes - it would be pretty great to see Kubica snatch it from under their noses!
 
rpstewart said:
I've said it before....

  • Ban refuelling
  • Use a single compound of slick tyre which will, if you're careful, just last a race distance
  • Le Mans style pitstops - only 4 people in the pit lane. If you want more then use the garage.

That gives you three possible options

1) The Alain Prost approach. Look after the tyres until 60% distance, change them and then go hell for leather to the finish

2) The Senna approach. Go hell for leather and need new tyres before half distance. Try and keep the second set in one piece whilst charging on a lighter fuel load

3) The "what the heck is Ivan Capelli doing in the lead" approach. Tiptoe around on the one set of tyres and hope that you can keep a decent place while the really quick charge back after their stops.
Click to expand...

Excited just by the prospect of this :D Fingers crossed somebody with the power has the same thoughts as you!
 
Whoever wins the championship this year, lets hope its because they take it by the scruff of the neck and outshine the competition in the next 2 races. I want it to go to someone who deserves it not who get its by default...

Im really of the opinion that whatever happens its been a disappointing year...

xen_ said:
Although I agree that Massa is very good, and Hamilton does make some mistakes it seems like people focus on Hamiltons mistakes more than anyone elses. You could say, that in a sense this forum has an anti-hamilton vibe in that mistakes such as throwing away his race in Japan will be remembered forever, especially if he doesn't win this year. Whereas Massas mistakes in Japan were just as silly, he did the same as Hamilton in a sense and lost it completely, he threw away a good result by being to aggressive just like Hamilton, and Massa is much more experienced in F1.
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But if Massa misses out on the championship not one person will blame anything apart from his performances over the season - if Hamilton doesnt Im sure there will be more conspiracies than Dan Brown could write about, rather than attributing the fact that the lion share of points hes lost are all his (or his teams) own doing...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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ps3ud0 said:
Whoever wins the championship this year, lets hope its because they take it by the scruff of the neck and outshine the competition in the next 2 races. I want it to go to someone who deserves it not who get its by default...

Im really of the opinion that whatever happens its been a disappointing year...

ps3ud0 :cool:
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Me too. To be honest no one really, like really, deserves it this year. But then Kimi didn't deserve it last year. This is what happens when the FIA intervenes to make the title race as close as possible...
 
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