2008 Japanese GP - Race 16/18

NathanE thats a bit harsh on Kimi he kept his cool and outscored everyone in the 2nd half of the season so he does in my eyes deserve the title.

Based on what your saying then one could say that damon hill did not deserve the 96 title he only one it because of Villeneuve's bad luck/DNFs/car failures.
 
IPBA said:
Based on what your saying then one could say that damon hill did not deserve the 96 title he only one it because of Villeneuve's bad luck/DNFs/car failures.
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Hmm. Bad example. Hill qualified on the front row for every single race that year, and won twice as many races as Jacques :) He also DNF'd 4 times to Jacques' 3!
 
spoonz said:
sorry if a pearoast

but some very interesting onboard footage here

http://www.f1.com/news/headlines/2008/10/8530.html

notice

1) Hamiltons 50p shaped right front after the lock up
2) Could Hamilton have turned right before he did? I dont think so as was still locked up and/or understeering by the look of it. This is what the penalty was for as if you view from outside he seems to delay turning right to push Raikonnen wider.
3) What appears to be Massa getting thrown into Hamilton by the kerb (no steering input, all turning left)
4) The choice of camera angles by forumlaone.com
5) The unprecidented appearence of a set of contentious decisions displayed on the formulaone.com website for viewing (as far as I am aware)
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Jesus I just saw that and noticed that Hamilton on the first turn actually slightly turned into KR before braking and KR instead of attempting to turn into the corner, as normal, had to take avoiding action. Its obvious from the 2nd viewpoint and in-car view. Hamilton couldnt turn right until he did because his brakes were locked up and therefore just wouldnt allow him to steer. He really had wrecked his tyres by then (more like a £5 note than a 50p spot :p)...

BTW anyone notice people around LH going wide on purpose like Hamilton was trying to say on Sunday - I think not :/

On the second incident I think Massa got distracted by the Toyota (which cuts in from the extreme left of the track) as he was about to turn into the chicane but the Toyota was already where he wanted to be and forced him wide due to that and not too late on the brakes as some people said (notice that there is no speed differential between LH and FM as they enter the chicane). I didnt realise how far ahead he was from Lewis in the braking zone and it was only this mistake that let Lewis in (see both in-car views)...

Wish they had more views for the 3rd incident - looks like they were both blind spotted as they touched...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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ps3ud0 said:
Jesus I just saw that and noticed that Hamilton on the first turn actually slightly turned into KR before braking and KR instead of attempting to turn into the corner, as normal, had to take avoiding action. Its obvious from the 2nd viewpoint and in-car view...
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You mean....his penalty might actually have been justified? It wasn't just a giant conspiracy to help out Ferrari in the title chase?

OH NOES!!!!111

:D

spoonz said:
now thats stats! :D
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I do have some uses - quoting chapter and verse from The Ladybird Big Book Of Formula One Statistics And Other Such Nonsense™ is one of them ;)
 
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ps3ud0 said:
This thread has gone awfully quiet from the normally vocal other half ;)
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Give 'em time. They'll be back.

Meanwhile....

In other news, Ron reckons what Hamilton did at Turn 1 was a common occurrence. Funny, that. I personally can't remember the last time I saw someone shred their tyres down to the canvas when braking for T1 on the opening lap....that might just be me, though.

Also, if this is true then it's a big policy shift for Ferrari.


***edit***

From the first story I linked to above:

I think the thing that really got to him was the penalty, it really did. He was bitterly complaining about it in the car.
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- Ron Dennis

Might I be permitted to suggest that maybe Hamilton could have, you know, shut the **** up and driven quicker? Rather than just bitch about the penalty? It was a done deal - no point getting all steamed up about it unless he planned to channel that aggression into putting on a big charge. And although he was closing on Massa at one point, it did seem to go a bit flat by the close of play.
 
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JRS said:
You mean....his penalty might actually have been justified? It wasn't just a giant conspiracy to help out Ferrari in the title chase?

OH NOES!!!!111
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The footage has clearly been altered by the FIA to frame hamilton! ;)

Hamilton and massa both got what they deserved. Neither penalty was a hanging offensive, but both cost other drivers a lot of positions. The massa/bourdais footage isn't great, but it does show that massa was well ahead, however what one really needs to know is if bourdais moved away from the kerb.
 
JRS said:
Might I be permitted to suggest that maybe Hamilton could have, you know, shut the **** up and driven quicker? Rather than just bitch about the penalty? It was a done deal - no point getting all steamed up about it unless he planned to channel that aggression into putting on a big charge. And although he was closing on Massa at one point, it did seem to go a bit flat by the close of play.
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These are the sort of incidents that Hamilton currently seems unable to fight back from. The sort of incidents that would have seen Schumacher, Mansell or Senna charge from the back into a points scoring position (or go off trying!)
 
NathanE said:
How could LH have driven any quicker to catch Massa when his car was aerodynamically damaged?
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I don't know - but it's not the first time we've seen this from him. He was also utterly unable to push or pass DC for a massive portion of the Singapore race.
 
What evidence is there for his damaged aerodynamics? The F1 vid link shows he had a damaged winglet on the rear right wheel (majority of the contact seems to be wheel to wheel rather than wheel to sidepod.

As I said in race when they complained about barge board issues there seems nothing in the coming together that attributes that damage to that incident...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
NathanE said:
How could LH have driven any quicker to catch Massa when his car was aerodynamically damaged?
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Where was it said that Hamilton actually had car trouble once he'd had the tyres replaced and the suspension had been checked over? Serious question this, as I don't recall reading it or hearing it anywhere.
 
Lopéz said:
I don't know - but it's not the first time we've seen this from him. He was also utterly unable to push or pass DC for a massive portion of the Singapore race.
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Neither did Massa or Kubica do much to regain positions. Kind of adds weight to the theory that people are expecting too much from LH.
 
It was after the race they announced it I think. He would have damaged his barge board in the first two off track moments he had and a bumped rear wheel from Massa.
 
JRS said:
Where was it said that Hamilton actually had car trouble once he'd had the tyres replaced and the suspension had been checked over? Serious question this, as I don't recall reading it or hearing it anywhere.
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Seen the official F1 video yet? LH gets a huge tyre rammed into his side pod. Can't have been very good for it. The force was enough to spin him around.

Renault were the ones that leaked it to the paddock that his car was damaged. Then McLaren confirmed it later in the race from what I remember.
 
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