2008 Japanese GP - Race 16/18

It was after the race they announced it I think. He would have damaged his barge board in the first two off track moments he had and a bumped rear wheel from Massa.

Yup, suspect the boards were ruined when he hopped across several fairly high kerbs to either leave :p or rejoin the track at Turn 1 and then Turn 2.
 
Where was it said that Hamilton actually had car trouble once he'd had the tyres replaced and the suspension had been checked over? Serious question this, as I don't recall reading it or hearing it anywhere.

Second half of page 17 on this thread I asked the question - Im sure JA mentioned the fact that McLaren had given that as an excuse and I was trying to work out how the damage could have happened...

Can someone more technical than me explain how the barge board could have ot damaged when Massa hit Hamilton - I cant see it myself...

Sidepod damage would give you very minor drag issues but nothing major...

ps3ud0 :cool:
Agreed - but Mclaren were justifying Hamiltons pace due to a damaged barge board due to that incident - I cant see how it could have got damaged since the car wasnt lifted in the air or rode the kerbs...

Any damage I consider is due to Lewis' driving style...

Go Alonso!!! (DANCES)

ps3ud0 :cool:
EDIT: Sorry I stand corrected must have been TK who reported it...
EDIT2: Looking at the F1 video it does seem to happen when he re-enters the track after going off on the first turn, rather than when he left it...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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Been unable to post for a week, so a huge amount of things I could comment on, but I won't, since I'll be here all night!

In short, what an interesting race, absolute madness on the first lap. My opinions on the penaltys, as someone who wants Hamilton to win because he is English, and doesn't hugely like Ferrari, since the Schumi days. No fanboyism, no hatred. Just preference.

Hamiltons Penalty: - Hugely aggressive move from him, its the sort of thing we have come to expect from him, I'm torn on whether it should have been a penalty for the sake of consistancy, and whether 1st bend incidents like this should really be punished.

Massa hitting Hamilton: - Massa makes a mistake, Lewis rightfully trys to make a move, Massa goes off track, across the corner and straight into the Mclaren. Clear penalty, and a far worse offence than the 1st corner incident in my opinion.
I find it interesting how massa effectively did what everyone said Hamilton should have done at spa, and tried to make the corner. Massa wasn't side by side entering the corner, and should have slowed. In the end, he didn't, and got rightfully punished.

Bourdais..... Poor bloke, ridiculus decision. He is on the inside, racing for position. Massa turns in on him, and spins. This should never have been a penalty, even if it had gone the other way around, and Massa was given the penalty, it would be wrong. Its a pure racing incident. Ofcourse, if Massa had been given a penalty I would have cheered :p


Cracking drive by Alonso and Kubica. Robert holding off Kimi at the end of the race was brilliant racing, I'd love to see Kubica snatch the championship if Hamilton wants to throw it away, it will be well deserved, by far the most consistent driver of the year, not a single mistake I can think of. Next year should be fantastic with him driving a decent BMW, and Alonso thirsty to proove himself in a strengthening Renault.
 
You mean....his penalty might actually have been justified? It wasn't just a giant conspiracy to help out Ferrari in the title chase?

OH NOES!!!!111

:D

Hamilton's penalty might've been justified, as was Massa's. However, what really proved that the FIA are trying to assist Ferrari at every turn, is when they gave Massa an extra point (for the Bourdais incident). That took the biscuit LOL.

Still, I have belief that Hamilton/McLaren is a better package than Massa/Ferrari, hence, I believe that Hamilton should win the WDC in 2008. The problem is that if either Massa or Hamilton get a DNF, then this will decide the title.

IMO, Ron Dennis should've managed the shenanigans between Alonso and Hamilton at Hungary, in 2007. This would mean that the FIA would never have got involved and demoted Alonso to 6th on the grid. Alonso wouldve been World Champion for 2007 and had they kept Alonso in 2008, he probably wouldve been World Champion again.

I feel that relying on a rookie like Hamilton to win the title in his 2nd year was very risky and it may cost McLaren. I have to blame poor managerial decisions. 2007/8 were there for the taking. Especially in 2007, when McLaren boasted by far, the best driver line-up.
 
Oh and on the subject of worthy winners:

Last year, although Kimi won it, I feel that he "lucked" into it. He didnt win it from the front. The pressure was on Alonso and Hamilton throughout, which allowed Kimi to casually sneak past both of them, as they squabbled and took points away from eachother.

This year, if Kubica wins, I would have to say that that would probably make him the best driver in F1. To win the WDC in the 3rd best car, when there are decent drivers in the better cars, would be something that we havent seen in decades. I doubt that will happen though.
 
IMO, Ron Dennis should've managed the shenanigans between Alonso and Hamilton at Hungary, in 2007. This would mean that the FIA would never have got involved and demoted Alonso to 6th on the grid. Alonso wouldve been World Champion for 2007 and had they kept Alonso in 2008, he probably wouldve been World Champion again.

I feel that relying on a rookie like Hamilton to win the title in his 2nd year was very risky and it may cost McLaren. I have to blame poor managerial decisions. 2007/8 were there for the taking. Especially in 2007, when McLaren boasted by far, the best driver line-up.
Yep Hamilton would make a great number 2 ;) - hang on, did I just read that right :confused:...

Oh and on the subject of worthy winners:

Last year, although Kimi won it, I feel that he "lucked" into it. He didnt win it from the front. The pressure was on Alonso and Hamilton throughout, which allowed Kimi to casually sneak past both of them, as they squabbled and took points away from eachother.

This year, if Kubica wins, I would have to say that that would probably make him the best driver in F1. To win the WDC in the 3rd best car, when there are decent drivers in the better cars, would be something that we havent seen in decades. I doubt that will happen though.
You do make me smile sunama - some of the things you say are George Bush worthy...

So Kimi winning by not leading the WDC until the end meant he just lucked out - yet Kubica in a similar fashion (not leading the WDC so doesnt have the pressure and potentially will only win the crown because Massa and Hamilton are squabbling and are taken points off each other) would make him the best driver in F1...

As I said its hard to take you seriously when you come out with those pearls of wisdom :p

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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So Kimi winning by not leading the WDC until the end meant he just lucked out - yet Kubica in a similar fashion (not leading the WDC so doesnt have the pressure and potentially will only win the crown because Massa and Hamilton are squabbling and are taken points off each other) would make him the best driver in F1...

Kimi won the title by 1pt, in the best car, while all eyes were on Alonso/Hamilton, as they soaked up all the pressure from eachother, taking points away from eachother.

In 2008, Massa and Hamilton havent taken too many points off of eachother, as they have both messed up so many times, in different races. If Kubica wins it this year, he will have done so in the 3rd best car - something that has not happened in at least 2 decades.

Thats the difference.

As I said its hard to take you seriously when you come out with those pearls of wisdom :p

Oh, thats another "dig" at me, because I donot share your opinion. And here I was thinking that personal "digs" are not encouraged on this forum?
 
from rewatching the footage of T1, surely HK should have gotten some sort of penalty? fair enough hamilton hung massa out to dry but that happens at just about every T1 of every GP. If anything, massa was still hanging onto a bit of track after hamilton had cleared and HK pushed him completely off.
 
Oh, thats another "dig" at me, because I donot share your opinion. And here I was thinking that personal "digs" are not encouraged on this forum?
When you virtually contradict yourself in the same post or backtrack its hard to take you seriously - its not a 'dig', its just an opinion that sometimes you do post some rubbish. If you really are offended perhaps its not the best place to post on a public forum...

When youve decided your opinion tell me and Ill do my utmost to seemingly oppose it - thats all Im here for :rolleyes:

As Ive said before you do talk some occasional sense but you have to constantly separate the wheat from the chaff...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
From PitPass:

It's claimed that at next week's meeting with the ten F1 teams that comprise the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA), FIA President Max Mosley will unveil his own five-year plan aimed at finally putting the brakes on spending, particularly in light of the current global financial crisis, which has yet to fully hit the sport.

Among the measures Mosley is looking at:

# The introduction of a standard engine from the beginning of the 2010 season, as revealed by Bernie Ecclestone last week. At present it is unclear whether the engines will be built by the manufacturers or by a central supplier, however, they will all be to the same design.

# A new engine regime to begin from 2013 with power trains which fully incorporate heat and exhaust recovery systems.

# The use of more "common parts" on chassis, including standard suspension systems, wheels and underbodies - this fits in with Pitpass' recent claim that standard brakes and rear wings could also be used.
Highlighted the bits that concern me. In fact, concern isn't the word. What on Earth would be the point of FORMULA ONE if each car was exactly the same bar the paintjob? Why not just run the World Championship to GP2 rules if you're going to play that game?
 
From PitPass:

Highlighted the bits that concern me. In fact, concern isn't the word. What on Earth would be the point of FORMULA ONE if each car was exactly the same bar the paintjob? Why not just run the World Championship to GP2 rules if you're going to play that game?


The quicker they learn to leave F1 alone the better. Next they will have the drivers wearing blindfolds!

Some might say LH already is.
 
You do make me smile sunama - some of the things you say are George Bush worthy...

So Kimi winning by not leading the WDC until the end meant he just lucked out - yet Kubica in a similar fashion (not leading the WDC so doesnt have the pressure and potentially will only win the crown because Massa and Hamilton are squabbling and are taken points off each other) would make him the best driver in F1...

As I said its hard to take you seriously when you come out with those pearls of wisdom :p

ps3ud0 :cool:
I agree with sunama. Kimi lucked into it.
 
From PitPass:

Highlighted the bits that concern me. In fact, concern isn't the word. What on Earth would be the point of FORMULA ONE if each car was exactly the same bar the paintjob? Why not just run the World Championship to GP2 rules if you're going to play that game?
It wouldn't F1 anymore with those changes.
 
I agree with sunama. Kimi lucked into it.

Again - he won more races than Hamilton. He kept his head when Hamilton and McLaren didn't. He was close enough in the points to take advantage of Hamilton and McLaren choking right at the end of the year.

This isn't 'lucking into it'. This is Kimi going out grabbing the title.

***edit***

It wouldn't F1 anymore with those changes.

Right, so it won't be Formula One any more....and you can't really call it Grand Prix racing now since the drivers salaries dwarf the prize money....so just why in flying ****-land would they be going out there? :)
 
Australia - Kimi Räikkönen
Malaysia - Fernando
Bahrain - Massa Ferrari
Spain - Felipe Massa
Monaco - Fernando Alonso
Canada - Lewis Hamilton
United States - Lewis Hamilton
France - Kimi Räikkönen
Great Britain - Kimi Räikkönen
Europe - Fernando Alonso
Hungary - Lewis Hamilton
Turkey - Felipe Massa
Italy - Fernando Alonso
Belgium - Kimi Räikkönen
Japan - Lewis Hamilton
China - Kimi Räikkönen
Brazil - Kimi Räikkönen

Lewis won 4 Races in 07 whereas Kimi won 6
Lewis had 4 2nd places & Kimi had 2 in 07
Lewis had 3 3rd places & Kimi had 4 in 07

So how in Gods name did Kimi luck the championship - there were some races where Lewis had luck on his side and likewise for Kimi but to say Kimi lucked it when he won more races and only had 1 less podium finish than Lewis is taking the mick.

I think the love for Hamilton goes a bit to far on this forum sometimes - I don't debate that the guy's got talent but comeon folks keep things in perspective here.
 
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Sir Jackie Stewart still has a keen grasp of the obvious. ;)

Interesting bits from my perspective:

“There's an old adage, 'You can't win the race in the first corner, but you can lose it.' “And that's exactly what occurred.

“His approach in that first corner was slightly arrogant to other drivers.

“He braked far too late, ran deep into the run-off area, almost collided with Kimi Raikkonen, and was later punished by the stewards with a drive-through penalty.

“The Japanese race demonstrated that Lewis is still very young, in only his second season, and although he comes across as very cool in interviews, he doesn't always have the same level of mind management when he's racing

“Lewis Hamilton can still win the championship, but not if he drives the last two races the way he drove in Japan.”
Stewart doubts Massa’s move had been deliberate, but points to it as an example of how the Brazilian was also guilty of hot-headedness.

“Felipe Massa did not drive a great race either,” he said.

“He was penalised for his collision with Hamilton, and although he surely didn't intentionally cause the crash, it was the result of Massa taking liberties which were really asking for trouble.”
JYS has it spot on IMO.


***edit***

I think the love for Hamilton goes a bit to far on this forum sometimes - I don't debate that the guy's got talent but comeon folks keep things in perspective here.

To be fair, the Lewisteria here is mild compared to other corners of the internet....
 
Among the measures Mosley is looking at:

# The introduction of a standard engine from the beginning of the 2010 season, as revealed by Bernie Ecclestone last week. At present it is unclear whether the engines will be built by the manufacturers or by a central supplier, however, they will all be to the same design.

# A new engine regime to begin from 2013 with power trains which fully incorporate heat and exhaust recovery systems.

# The use of more "common parts" on chassis, including standard suspension systems, wheels and underbodies - this fits in with Pitpass' recent claim that standard brakes and rear wings could also be used.
We have A1 GP for that kind of racing :confused:
 
http://img.metro.co.uk/e-edition/Aspay/Metro20081015/resources/34.htm

Lewis comments back at the arrogance claims.

I think the Lewis downfall is down to pressure and I reckon his father has too much of a tight lead on him off the track. When he is on the track he's always trying to prove something when it's obvious the team and his father would want him to take it easy and play snooker rather than pool (or 8ball for yank fans).

Added pressure from stewards decisions doesn't help. Imagine coming up to a slower driver and then going through the motions of "if it get it slightly wrong will I end up 25 secs out of pocket?". They know they can do it but still have doubt.

What we can say is Lewis does have a lot of media and circuit side pressure after last years antics and we can say for sure he's not handling it well at all. Take that away and we would have a great driver on our hands. He just needs to remember F1 is a strategy game unlike the toe-to-toe nature of GP2.
 
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