Compaines like Renault and Honda then?
Poll: 2014 F1 engines
- Thread starter andicole0
- Start date
Compaines like Renault and Honda then?
Yes we all know Renault and Honda are in it for what they can achieve commercially, but that is part of the problem.
Are companies who want to sell millions of hybrid cars really the best people to be making engines for the elite class of motor sport?
F1 generates huge amounts of cash and can easily support companies who design and manufacture engines as a viable enterprise. Cosworth did it quite successfully.
Associate
But Cosworth admitted they could never have managed to engineer a PU to the new regs. Look at the problems Renault have had.
F1 can only survive with the support of large manufacturers, and like it or not, these Power Units are completely relevant to where their commercial interests lie.
F1 can only survive with the support of large manufacturers, and like it or not, these Power Units are completely relevant to where their commercial interests lie.
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Again, there lies the problem - "new regs". It's getting to the point when a team manager needs to have a law degree to understand new regulations.
F1 can survive with the support of smaller manufacturers who get a bigger slice of the F1 pie. It has become too commercial and is being led in a direction that will see its popularity suffer. This has already happened with race day attendance.
Associate
People complained when F1 was no longer the 'pinnacle' of new technology, and now they've got an incredibly complex and relevant power unit providing lots of power and torque - people still complain.
Getting to? F1 have needed lawyers to work out the rules for decades and decades. nothing new there. Loopholes have been exploited since I can remember which is back to late 80's, and early 90's is when I can really start to remember.
As for fuel, they were saving fuel last season as well. So unlike what most people in this thread are saying this isn't new, this has been an issue for years. The reason is overall time is faster by going slower. When a kilo of fuel is worth ~0.2seconds a lap, a driver with a heavy foot can not make that up. Again there's only one easyish solution for that and that's set a certain fuel weight say 100k, not a maximum of 100K. If you just allow teams to run more fuel, like last year they simply won't as the race time will be slower as it's not worth the weight penalty, and you have to limit power someway anyway. Yeah with more fuel you'll get one or two fast laps at the end of the race, but most laps will be slower.
As for lap times, that's just hilarious, put these engines in last years cars and the lap times would almost certainly beat last years. People seem to totally ignore they've lost significant downforce and the tyres are a harder compound as well.
Oh and its the first race, systems will be refined and times will tumble, just like every season.
This thread really is hilarious, trying to ignore the past and blame everything on engines, just to make a sour point.
Don't like the sound fine, don't make crap up though.
As for fuel, they were saving fuel last season as well. So unlike what most people in this thread are saying this isn't new, this has been an issue for years. The reason is overall time is faster by going slower. When a kilo of fuel is worth ~0.2seconds a lap, a driver with a heavy foot can not make that up. Again there's only one easyish solution for that and that's set a certain fuel weight say 100k, not a maximum of 100K. If you just allow teams to run more fuel, like last year they simply won't as the race time will be slower as it's not worth the weight penalty, and you have to limit power someway anyway. Yeah with more fuel you'll get one or two fast laps at the end of the race, but most laps will be slower.
As for lap times, that's just hilarious, put these engines in last years cars and the lap times would almost certainly beat last years. People seem to totally ignore they've lost significant downforce and the tyres are a harder compound as well.
Oh and its the first race, systems will be refined and times will tumble, just like every season.
This thread really is hilarious, trying to ignore the past and blame everything on engines, just to make a sour point.
Don't like the sound fine, don't make crap up though.
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I'm confused. What "crap" is being made up?
Associate
Not a fan of the sound, glad I went to Monza last year and not this 
Just not sure it'll have the same atmosphere without the noise - interesting to see how Le Mans get on as iirc they have the same engine but obviously different exhausts etc
Just not sure it'll have the same atmosphere without the noise - interesting to see how Le Mans get on as iirc they have the same engine but obviously different exhausts etcPerhaps the comment about the regulations needing a lawyer just this year.
Or that cars are slower due to Pau, totally ignoring the face we've lost down force and gone with harder tyres.
Or the fact people saying this is the first tome we're saving fuel.
Or the first time we've seen mass unreliability, go back to turbo era and they had to dial the engines back as they kept blowing.
There really is so much guff in this thread, because people really can't think of many reasons to dislike the PU, other than noise and rather than just saying it's due to noise and nothing else. Feel the need to big up the exaggeration and ignore everything, to try and justify it to themselves.
Or that cars are slower due to Pau, totally ignoring the face we've lost down force and gone with harder tyres.
Or the fact people saying this is the first tome we're saving fuel.
Or the first time we've seen mass unreliability, go back to turbo era and they had to dial the engines back as they kept blowing.
There really is so much guff in this thread, because people really can't think of many reasons to dislike the PU, other than noise and rather than just saying it's due to noise and nothing else. Feel the need to big up the exaggeration and ignore everything, to try and justify it to themselves.
Nothing I have said regarding the negative aspects of F1 was specific to this year with the exception of the smaller V6 engines. Perhaps your comments were aimed at someone else.
Also talking about "crap" and "guff" isn't really helping in what is mainly quite an intelligent debate.
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It's aimed at many people in this thread, but that includes you, ignoring the fact we've lost downforce and changed tyres. So you can't say the engines are slower as the chances are the engines are actually faster than last year, thanks to the extra torque. The down grade in fuel limit doesn't make much difference, when the PU is so much mire efficient.
The golden era of f1 has died, but it died in 1994 where technology got to a point that overtook sense and coincided with increased h&s.
F1 is about technology.
If you want the best driver to driver racing watch NASCAR
Want the best looking cars watch the LMP1 cars
If you want sheet noise and BHP, watch top fuel dragster.
F1 has always been about extracting the most from a set of rules and being high tech. The high tech has been lost for a while. We finally get it back and people still complain. But then people complain about things that F1 was never about, it's never been a great driver to driver racing championship as the cars are all different, yes it's got worse since our understanding of aerodynamics took off. But f1 has always generally been dominated by 1 team a season.
Get rid if DRS, double points, two tyres rule etc, these are what is most broken in F1.
The golden era of f1 has died, but it died in 1994 where technology got to a point that overtook sense and coincided with increased h&s.
F1 is about technology.
If you want the best driver to driver racing watch NASCAR
Want the best looking cars watch the LMP1 cars
If you want sheet noise and BHP, watch top fuel dragster.
F1 has always been about extracting the most from a set of rules and being high tech. The high tech has been lost for a while. We finally get it back and people still complain. But then people complain about things that F1 was never about, it's never been a great driver to driver racing championship as the cars are all different, yes it's got worse since our understanding of aerodynamics took off. But f1 has always generally been dominated by 1 team a season.
Get rid if DRS, double points, two tyres rule etc, these are what is most broken in F1.
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The loss of downforce combined with smaller engines, lack of noise, harsher fuel limits and tyres that don't work as well, all contribute to the unavoidable conclusion that F1 is being driven by the wrong forces and is losing its way. This isn't a new phenomenon, but it's a quantum leap worse this year.
It is far better this year, drivers have to drive, they now have so much power they can't just plant their foot to the floor. "decreased aero dynamics is great, it leads to less dirty air.
Tyres work far better than last year, or at least from what we have seen and how they are meant to cope this year.
About the only thing wrong with f1 is things like DRS, double points, two tyres rules which take tactics out. And noise maybe(depending on view point) not that f1 cars have sound great for decades. High screeching noise isn't practically nice. Rib cage shattering is great, but it soon gets tiring.
Sound has always been a by product of the technology and rules. Technology has moved on and noise is wasted torque/BHP. So it only makes sense this is lessened.
It would be great to go back to golden era but it's not possible, technology and development has far surpassed that early era.
You just can't get away from the fact f1 isn't about noise, isn't about driver to driver racing. It's main point is extracting the most from the rules above anything else. Which is why we've had ugly cars throughout the decades, horrible sounding cars throughout the decades etc. Nothing this season, is any different to 30 years ago.
Tyres work far better than last year, or at least from what we have seen and how they are meant to cope this year.
About the only thing wrong with f1 is things like DRS, double points, two tyres rules which take tactics out. And noise maybe(depending on view point) not that f1 cars have sound great for decades. High screeching noise isn't practically nice. Rib cage shattering is great, but it soon gets tiring.
Sound has always been a by product of the technology and rules. Technology has moved on and noise is wasted torque/BHP. So it only makes sense this is lessened.
It would be great to go back to golden era but it's not possible, technology and development has far surpassed that early era.
You just can't get away from the fact f1 isn't about noise, isn't about driver to driver racing. It's main point is extracting the most from the rules above anything else. Which is why we've had ugly cars throughout the decades, horrible sounding cars throughout the decades etc. Nothing this season, is any different to 30 years ago.
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Associate
Having spent many a year at the GoodWood FOS I'm well used to the noise generated by a variety of cars. The F1 V12s are gorgeous and smooth, the V10 were angry, snarling beasts but the V8s were just loud (worst of the bunch in my opinion).
The Le Mans cars on the other hand, were virtually silent.
Just as an aside, one of the most popular cars up the Goodwood hill was the Le Mans Aston Martin V8 - that's how a V8 should sound..magnificent.
Personally I like the multi-textured sounds of the new F1 - being able to hear the complex systems working is a nice change from the droning 'scream' of the V8s.
By the summer I fully expect the cars to be broadly equal on pace with last year as the teams come to grips with the Power Units and the aero restrictions, and anyway, for me it's about the racing. Everything else certainly adds to the spectacle, but for me its all about the racing.
The Le Mans cars on the other hand, were virtually silent.
Just as an aside, one of the most popular cars up the Goodwood hill was the Le Mans Aston Martin V8 - that's how a V8 should sound..magnificent.
Personally I like the multi-textured sounds of the new F1 - being able to hear the complex systems working is a nice change from the droning 'scream' of the V8s.
By the summer I fully expect the cars to be broadly equal on pace with last year as the teams come to grips with the Power Units and the aero restrictions, and anyway, for me it's about the racing. Everything else certainly adds to the spectacle, but for me its all about the racing.
What I find amusing is that F1 is supposed to be reducing costs, yet year on year new regulations are issued which cost millions or tens of millions to develop the technology for.
I do have sympathy for those that are excited by change in F1 and I agree we can never go back to "the good old days". But F1 should evolve without losing the fundamental components of its appeal and yes, the thrilling sound of an F1 engine is one of them.
I believe technological advances could still have been incorporated into a high performance racing engine without reducing the number of cylinders and silencing the cars.
I do have sympathy for those that are excited by change in F1 and I agree we can never go back to "the good old days". But F1 should evolve without losing the fundamental components of its appeal and yes, the thrilling sound of an F1 engine is one of them.
I believe technological advances could still have been incorporated into a high performance racing engine without reducing the number of cylinders and silencing the cars.
Associate
This goes back to the relevance of the power units - small capacity, turbo hybrids are bang-on relevant to today's commercial requirements. V8s and higher really aren't.
Associate
You have sympathy for us that like the changes? What on earth do you mean by that? Sounds a bit...patronising (bizarrely).
Reducing costs is a sham, it'll never work. Reduce cost of one component, and the repeats with the money will just throw it into aero research. Which is just wasted money.
Be better giving teams something worth while to spend money on which means mechanical like all the ERS, if FIA would open up the rules more.
This years PU is very much a high performance racing engine. Its has pretty much identical BHP as last year but far more torque. Remember they aren't on full throttle the entire lap(braking zones and cornering) meaning the ERS can be used for most of the lap when actually needed.
Be better giving teams something worth while to spend money on which means mechanical like all the ERS, if FIA would open up the rules more.
This years PU is very much a high performance racing engine. Its has pretty much identical BHP as last year but far more torque. Remember they aren't on full throttle the entire lap(braking zones and cornering) meaning the ERS can be used for most of the lap when actually needed.
Not at all. Sympathy as in understanding.