2016 : A Pivotal Year For AMD, Nvidia, PC Gaming And VR

AlamoX said:
doesn't really apply here :p
VR is useless without software, devs dont make software if there isn't enough install base, and without software users dont see the need or the appeal to buy VR product, it's a little loop, like for consoles, so you cant compare a product let's say a TV or a Phone or a GPU being highly priced, because they are not dependent on custom made software, or market already filled with software.
because right now with prices over 600$, i dont think oculus and HTC both would sell a total of 500k units by the end of the year
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the vast majority of the games that have announced VR support are either indie titles, so probably not expecting large sales, or are games that already exist / will exist without VR and are adding VR support as an extra thing

Oculus sold out of day one stock within minutes, I'm not sure why you're being so down on what you think the number of sales will be - Oculus previously predicted that year 1 consumer headsets would number around 500k uers, they also thought they had "plenty" of day one stock and that they "definitely wouldn't sell out"... yet they did... within minutes... and the Vive isn't even on sale yet

whats really funny is that a couple of people who were saying "I can't see how it can flop" a couple of days ago are now saying it has no chance at this price point, and I'm actually more positive on the whole thing now having read the results of people having tried the latest hardware at CES
 
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MadMossy said:
Amazon haven't revealed a thing, its a place holder price. The PSVR will in no way on earth cost that much. $300 maybe $350 at most.
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I don't see that myself. I'd be more inclined to believe the $1100 (canadian, so $800 USD) than $300. Though in honesty I expect $500, but $800 wouldn't make me die of shock exactly.
 
andybird123 said:
the vast majority of the games that have announced VR support are either indie titles, so probably not expecting large sales, or are games that already exist / will exist without VR and are adding VR support as an extra thing

Oculus sold out of day one stock within minutes, I'm not sure why you're being so down on what you think the number of sales will be - Oculus previously predicted that year 1 consumer headsets would number around 500k uers, they also thought they had "plenty" of day one stock and that they "definitely wouldn't sell out"... yet they did... within minutes... and the Vive isn't even on sale yet

whats really funny is that a couple of people who were saying "I can't see how it can flop" a couple of days ago are now saying it has no chance at this price point, and I'm actually more positive on the whole thing now having read the results of people having tried the latest hardware at CES
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hmm, i dont think the tech will flop, it's an amazing tech, and it will eventualy take off, but much slower than what i expected, because when you hear palmer talk about 300$ ballpark, things look more like a console kinda adoption rate, few millions every year, not few hundred thousands.
 
AlamoX said:
hmm, i dont think the tech will flop, it's an amazing tech, and it will eventualy take off, but much slower than what i expected, because when you hear palmer talk about 300$ ballpark, things look more like a console kinda adoption rate, few millions every year, not few hundred thousands.
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the chart that Oculus posted a few years ago said that they expected Gen1 headsets to be around 500k sales

they do want / expect the eventual headset price to drop, but they also decided to splash a load of extra cash (post facebook takeover) to deliver a better product for gen1, if the screen door effect is really gone with the new lenses then that is well worth it imo, I'm much happier spending £500 on a headset that is actually useable, vs. £300 for something like the DK2 that I got rid of within a week
 
VR specific title pricing and content is going to get interesting, read that they're possibly going to mark them up because of the tiny userbase.
 
Howling said:
I don't see that myself. I'd be more inclined to believe the $1100 (canadian, so $800 USD) than $300. Though in honesty I expect $500, but $800 wouldn't make me die of shock exactly.
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Sony would be crazy to sell it at that price, considering the backlash about the Rift price, an inferior product costing more than high end equipment would be suicide.

Sony have a huge user base of 40+ million console owners that will all want a go at VR, as sony can subsidize its cost as people will want to buy games for it they can maximise the adoption rate by pricing it well. $300 makes it slightly less than the actual console.

Them selling the PSVR for $800 would be like Oculus charging $2000 for the Rift. No one other than people with way too much money would even bother.
 
MadMossy said:
Sony would be crazy to sell it at that price, considering the backlash about the Rift price, an inferior product costing more than high end equipment would be suicide.

Sony have a huge user base of 40+ million console owners that will all want a go at VR, as sony can subsidize its cost as people will want to buy games for it they can maximise the adoption rate by pricing it well. $300 makes it slightly less than the actual console.

Them selling the PSVR for $800 would be like Oculus charging $2000 for the Rift. No one other than people with way too much money would even bother.
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Does the Sony VR not need the external "device" as well as the HMD though? That price wouldn't surprise me then. The "All-In" cost of Sony VR would then be lower than the "All-In" cost of Oculus. $1500 for Oculus vs ... $800+PS4 (what do PS4 go for? $300?) so $1100. And it has a larger install base - I can definitely see $800 being a realistic cost.
Basically, even at $800, you're still getting a cheaper VR experience than the CV1 - so it's entirely plausible to me.
 
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The external box you mention is essentially no different to the external box that comes with the Rift or Vive, its just a breakout box with the connections for the HMD. It may handle some simple processing functions but certainly not complex enough to warrant a huge price over the HMD itself.

Also refer to this interview with digital spy and Yoshida, where he states they won't be pricing to make a profit on the hardware. http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/in...l-reality-games-need-their-own-rating-system/
 
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Howling said:
Does the Sony VR not need the external "device" as well as the HMD though? That price wouldn't surprise me then. The "All-In" cost of Sony VR would then be lower than the "All-In" cost of Oculus. $1500 for Oculus vs ... $800+PS4 (what do PS4 go for? $300?) so $1100. And it has a larger install base - I can definitely see $800 being a realistic cost.
Basically, even at $800, you're still getting a cheaper VR experience than the CV1 - so it's entirely plausible to me.
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sony sold PS3 with over 100$ loss for the whole life span of their console, now the PS4 is a much better deal for them, it cost them less than the PS3 made 2 years ago, and they are actualy making money on the PS4 sales, 40mil is a huge number, their competition is done for, so i think they can swing their VR with over 200$ loss, and still come out winning.
the other day i saw a teardown of DK2, seriously there isn't much inside of that headset, screen, lenses, pcb, sensors, i just dont see 599$ there on finished CV1, i mean the screen need to be crazy expensive, because i dont see it on the lenses and sensors.
my guess sonny, samsung and LG should team up and drop few billions on oled tech, like intel and samsung did with 4k.
 
The only reason the Rift is as expensive as it is, is purely down to the fact they custom built everything, rather than use existing things. That alone will massively inflate the cost. HTC won't have done the same. They are in it for the profit so will look to use best and cheapest option.
 
MadMossy said:
The only reason the Rift is as expensive as it is, is purely down to the fact they custom built everything, rather than use existing things. That alone will massively inflate the cost. HTC won't have done the same. They are in it for the profit so will look to use best and cheapest option.
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they are using the same displays and very similar lenses, most of the headset is also custom made, so I can't really see what "off the shelf" parts they could be using, that oculus also aren't


for people wanting a cheaper headset, there is also another option coming, which is OSVR, which is aiming for $300, however from what people are saying it is currently not even quite as good as the DK2, so you could just get a DK2 if you want a cheap alternative and then at least you know it'll work with everything the Rift works with
 
There's a fair chunk of things that will be off the shelf, the tracking solution for the Vive for one, infact there was an article I read a few days ago from Chet at Valve talking about the light house stations, the initial batch cost them $250 each to make, the motors used were $50 each, the current batch the motors are $0.34 each, the camera on the front will be a generic digital camera sensor, other than the plastic parts, the lenses and displays most of the other electronic parts will be off the shelf.
 
TheRealDeal said:
Is it the same screen or just the resolution is the same. Same with the lenses are they the same or just the same spec.
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Valve gave oculus access to their R&D before the facebook buyout, they then hired Michael Abrash who was their lead in VR, pretty safe to say they are using the same panels (iirc they are amoled which means they are Samsung panels), they aren't just the same resolution they are the same refresh, low persistence, same everything, if they aren't the exact same panels I would be extremely surprised

How many 1080x1200 phones are there?

The same with the lenses, they are hybrid fresnel lenses, it makes no sense to say that the ones in the oculus cost significantly more than the ones HTC are using
 
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The Rift and Vive lenses are different, they are a different shape for starters, they may well still be hybrid fresnel lenses but they are not the same. The screen will be the same as the original specifications were created by Valve and handed to samsung to produce, so chances are both Oculus and HTC are using the same panels.
 
either way, they aren't "off the shelf" they are both custom made, and therefore a very similar cost in the BOM
HTC seem to have gone with a layout that has a better FOV but at the cost of SDE, where as the Rift have gone for a lower FOV with less to no SDE
 
andybird123 said:
Valve gave oculus access to their R&D before the facebook buyout, they then hired Michael Abrash who was their lead in VR, pretty safe to say they are using the same panels (iirc they are amoled which means they are Samsung panels), they aren't just the same resolution they are the same refresh, low persistence, same everything, if they aren't the exact same panels I would be extremely surprised

How many 1080x1200 phones are there?

The same with the lenses, they are hybrid fresnel lenses, it makes no sense to say that the ones in the oculus cost significantly more than the ones HTC are using
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Makes sense.
 
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