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Gregster, I was always VERY likely to buy the Rift, but watching your comments in the ED thread made me know for sure I had to buy it. So cheers!
2016 : A Pivotal Year For AMD, Nvidia, PC Gaming And VR
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Gregster, I was always VERY likely to buy the Rift, but watching your comments in the ED thread made me know for sure I had to buy it. So cheers!
I bet they were saying that in the 50's and 60's back when the Sensorama was in development.
Bottom line, it is an amazing idea/tech and eventually we will get it right, whether that will be this time around or not, we will know is a few years time.
(disclaimer the Sensorama is just one of many previous attempts to do virtual reality)
(This reply is aimed at the last few posts you made regarding the costing of both units)
A guy at valve said his educated guess on the cost of the screens in the Rift were 1/6th of its total cost. So that leaves plenty of off the shelf parts to account for everything else bar the casing, but HTC own the factories these things will be stamped out at.
Plenty of ways a seasoned manufacturer can produce items and negotiate the cost of parts (in Taiwan above all) better than a startup that is based and assembles their items IN silicon valley.
Genuinely, I am slaughtered right now but no matter what, VR is truly amazing and anyone who writes it off needs to at least give it a try. Totally a different gaming experience that needs to be seen first hand. Sure the CV1 is expensive but for the wow factor alone, it is well cheap!
Soldato
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That is still a very ethereal answer. Given that the vive is coming with the touch controllers included (something that sixense charge $299 for when sold seperately), it is practically impossible it will be cheaper. It might be the same price or only slightly more expensive and therefore a better deal for some, bit I really cant see it being the $400 product people seem to be hoping for.
Apart from the screen and lenses, what parts on the Rift that are custom are also on the vive as off the shelf? If anything the vive has extra parts (lighthouse and front camera), that are extra, so them being "off the shelf" doesnt save them money as they are additional to the BOM for the rift. The general build for the Vive does seem cheaper, but I'm not sure the headset casing is that significant of a cost to either.
In other news: in the AMA last night, someone asked if oculus would be supporting gsync or freesync and the answer was "we don't need to support either, we are working directly with nvidia and AMD on syncing directly with our panels"... so add another proprietary "sync" tech to the list
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That is still a very ethereal answer. Given that the vive is coming with the touch controllers included (something that sixense charge $299 for when sold seperately), it is practically impossible it will be cheaper. It might be the same price or only slightly more expensive and therefore a better deal for some, bit I really cant see it being the $400 product people seem to be hoping for.
Apart from the screen and lenses, what parts on the Rift that are custom are also on the vive as off the shelf? If anything the vive has extra parts (lighthouse and front camera), that are extra, so them being "off the shelf" doesnt save them money as they are additional to the BOM for the rift. The general build for the Vive does seem cheaper, but I'm not sure the headset casing is that significant of a cost to either.
In other news: in the AMA last night, someone asked if oculus would be supporting gsync or freesync and the answer was "we don't need to support either, we are working directly with nvidia and AMD on syncing directly with our panels"... so add another proprietary "sync" tech to the list
well you can't really compare accessory to the headset, the headset is like a console, subsidized, but profit is made of software and accessory, thats why their price is often far more expensive especialy if they are sold with the other components like sensors, but when bundled with the console (or headset) they get subsidized as well, beside valve already have an established platform with over 100mil user, they can afford selling them at a loss if they want to, up untill valve announces the price, everything is still possible.
with VR freesync like effect will be handled by the devs while coding the game, as they dont really need hardware for frame reproduction, what they were talking about on that interview is probably related to ordinary games, that get VR support as a bonus feature, like project cars, star citizen etc.
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Soldato
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Hang on, so the argument has changed from "HTC's cost is lower therefore the Vive will be cheaper" to "Valve will subsidise the headset to sell below cost"?
not really, the argument isn't about costing lower, but just by comparing the Vive to oculus, you can see clearly that valve is trying to make a cheaper product rather than trying luxury as rift did, controllers usualy cost from 5-10$ doubt Vive one would be different, and it's impact on the bundle would be less than 20-40$.
but why it could be cheaper is a different matter, as i mentioned valve is a platform like ps4 or xbone, they have over 130mil users, with an average of 10mil loged at the same time, so their motivation are a bit different from oculus.
like Marketing, valve have steam, oculus need to throw huge amount of money at it, because VR isn't like any simple product, they need to educate ppl on it.
valve make money on VR games sold on steam, oculus dont unless their studio developes it, or publish it.
there are many factors that makes VR cheaper for valve, more beneficial, and the cerise on top, their own steamOS and vulcan interest.
so technicaly if they want to sell it cheap they could, still too early to say though
That is still a very ethereal answer. Given that the vive is coming with the touch controllers included (something that sixense charge $299 for when sold seperately), it is practically impossible it will be cheaper. It might be the same price or only slightly more expensive and therefore a better deal for some, bit I really cant see it being the $400 product people seem to be hoping for.
Apart from the screen and lenses, what parts on the Rift that are custom are also on the vive as off the shelf? If anything the vive has extra parts (lighthouse and front camera), that are extra, so them being "off the shelf" doesnt save them money as they are additional to the BOM for the rift. The general build for the Vive does seem cheaper, but I'm not sure the headset casing is that significant of a cost to either.
In other news: in the AMA last night, someone asked if oculus would be supporting gsync or freesync and the answer was "we don't need to support either, we are working directly with nvidia and AMD on syncing directly with our panels"... so add another proprietary "sync" tech to the list
Ethereal as in a coherent list of reasons? Not sure why you want to believe a seasoned manufacturer is not more capable of creating a more streamlined and cost effective product than a new startup. Look at the CAD breakdown of the Rift it has hundreds of parts, its not all down to the screen and optics.
As for what they sell it for that is a different matter entirely.
I haven't been keeping up with sync tech, does the HDMI news and now Oculus mean that sync can be done on any panel with merely a driver? Obviously you can not fit a gsync module in the headset. And how do the Rift panels receive video? Which protocol?
Soldato
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what I replied to, and what you pulled me up on, was that someone said that HTC would have lower costs because they are using "off the shelf" parts where as Oculus are using "all custom"... I asked what parts these were that were off the shelf on the vive but custom on the oculus... no one seems to be able to give an answer... hence ethereal
yes, I agree that the vive headset itself looks "cheap" by comparison, but I really don't think its $200 difference in build cost, its just plastics at the end of the day which will be pennies in volume regardless of built in house or by a plastics contractor
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Soldato
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wow, so you are saying that the controllers that sixense sell for $299 and that oculus are reportedly going to be selling "at cost" for $200, are going to cost HTC $5-10 to make?
you also seem to be conflating HTC and Valve, HTC are selling the Vive, not valve
other controller cost from 5-10, but i said the vive controller might cost from 20-40$, because there is no way in hell it gets close to 200$ it's just plastic & rubber, and some sensors.
the same way i dont say the iphone belongs to the chinese company that apple outsource to, although HTC sticking their name on the product lead to believe that their relationship is more complicated, yet valve does all the R&D on VR, the design the features, i admit i do not know the part of HTC other than making the system's hardware, remember that Valve brought in HTC in the venture not the other way around.
Soldato
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also, oculus already have their own content platform, they are in fact aiming to be the "steam" of VR content, hence why they had the falling out with Valve in the first place
the controllers have much the same sensors etc. as the headset, and there are two of them... if that Valve guy is correct and the screens are only 1/6th of the cost of the headset, the sensors must be quite costly, because there's very little else in the headset that can make also make up a sixth or more of the cost
the audio components on the OR could be $100 worth, but I think all the extras on the Vive at least make up for that
the controllers have much the same sensors etc. as the headset, and there are two of them... if that Valve guy is correct and the screens are only 1/6th of the cost of the headset, the sensors must be quite costly, because there's very little else in the headset that can make also make up a sixth or more of the cost
the audio components on the OR could be $100 worth, but I think all the extras on the Vive at least make up for that
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when i said sensors i wasn't talking about the lighthouse that detect movements, the controller only have these dots, i dont know if i should call them sensors or emitters, it's just dots that are sensed by the lighthouse ( that is doing all the job) following the dot's movement, hence the price of that plastic controller with a circular top filled with dot sensor emitters to cost 200$.
and many other have tried origin(EA), Uplay(ubisoft), GoG, windows store...oculus wanting to do that is easy, but succeeding is not that obvious.
and my guess oculus overtime, saw that realistically gaming isn't going to be easy with Valve on the way, and probably one of the main reasons, rift went for more diversified applications, and they are right.
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No, the controllers and headset don't rely entirely on the lighthouse for tracking
I'm willing to pay extra for the games library that goes along with a SteamVR headset, but anything over £500 and I'll wait.
The Vive has a bonus over the Rift other than the camera and that is the controllers. Oculus are holding back till October I believe, so that does give HTC the advantage. Both have their pluses and minuses though but I am sure both will be giving a fantastic experience.