2016 : A Pivotal Year For AMD, Nvidia, PC Gaming And VR

[andybird123]

I was directly responding to you saying the sensors must be expensive, thought you might find it interesting that they cost next to nothing, accelerometers and gyroscopes don't cost much either.

My only reason for commenting in the first place was purely that someone said "the vive will be much cheaper because it is made from off the shelf components and the oculus is all custom"

All I've said is that I fund it unlikely the vive will be much cheaper and that I cant see where there are custom components on the oculus that are off the shelf on the vive, they are either both custom or both off the shelf, no one has managed to point out where this massive cost saving is?

I've worked in industrial automation and used to own a company that was a distributor for the cleanroom industry, I have a fairly good handle on the cost of electronics

You're going off little rat runs to try to disagree with anything I write, but you aren't addressing the original point.

 

[KelDG]

My only reason for commenting in the first place was purely that someone said "the vive will be much cheaper because it is made from off the shelf components and the oculus is all custom"

All I've said is that I fund it unlikely the vive will be much cheaper and that I cant see where there are custom components on the oculus that are off the shelf on the vive, they are either both custom or both off the shelf, no one has managed to point out where this massive cost saving is?

I've worked in industrial automation and used to own a company that was a distributor for the cleanroom industry, I have a fairly good handle on the cost of electronics

If you read up on the Rift they have done some crazy things (cool things) like create a new composite material as covering for the device adding unnecessary cost. If you look at the cad breakdown it seems really over engineered as compared to the Vive breakdown for the sake of being "premium". Don't get me wrong its awesome kit.

But Vive said it was entering the market as a premium product when Oculus was on their ballpark $350 range, which would put the Vive as a premium at any price over that. Now that the Rift has classed its self as a Premium product with a price to reflect that I don't understand why people think this means the Vive will be much more expensive, they are both premium products now.

My argument is HTC are seasoned manufacturers with established supply lines for things they don't already own and manufacturing in Taiwan, as apposed to a new startup with a base in silicon valley (so much more expensive). The controllers won't cost a massive percentage of the headset so it would be madness to not grab marketshare while it is free by outpricing themselves.

Also clean-rooms are under rated, cool tech in there, my wife works with them.

 

[Gregster]

Got debunked on reddit last night, the bad translation was quoting the cost of an Rift and computer good enough to run it.

The article also said

"The Oculus Rift, which has investment from Google" Not correct, Facebook, not Google.

"The Sony PlayStation VR is expected to be priced at US$1,125." Which Sony also said was wrong already, that was amazon Canada putting up a placeholder price.

Good to hear that. I really do want to see VR take off and if it is massively overpriced, that won't help.

 

[AlamoX]

there is another matter i wonder about, i think HTC/valve have Fabs in europe, so we might not see the aberration of 600$ turning to 750€

 

[andybird123]

But Vive said it was entering the market as a premium product when Oculus was on their ballpark $350 range, which would put the Vive as a premium at any price over that. Now that the Rift has classed its self as a Premium product with a price to reflect that I don't understand why people think this means the Vive will be much more expensive, they are both premium products now.

My argument is HTC are seasoned manufacturers with established supply lines for things they don't already own and manufacturing in Taiwan, as apposed to a new startup with a base in silicon valley (so much more expensive). The controllers won't cost a massive percentage of the headset so it would be madness to not grab marketshare while it is free by outpricing themselves.

I didn't say the Vive would be more expensive than the Rift, I just replied to someone saying it would be much cheaper and saying that seems unlikely.

The Rift isn't being made in Silicon Valley - my DK2 had chinese stickers all over it when it arrived. They have a design base in SV but the manufacturing is still being done in China.

there is another matter i wonder about, i think HTC/valve have Fabs in europe, so we might not see the aberration of 600$ turning to 750€

they have an office in Slough, but its a sales office not manufacturing which is all done in Taiwan and a bit through a partner in India iirc

 

[KelDG]

1, The Rift isn't being made in Silicon Valley - my DK2 had chinese stickers all over it when it arrived. They have a design base in SV but the manufacturing is still being done in China.

2, You're going off little rat runs to try to disagree with anything I write, but you aren't addressing the original point.

1, The components are shipped from china (and elsewhere) to the US and they are assembled in their factory there, they are then all shipped from the USA, this has been mentioned by them many times.

2, Not cool Andy, I have not been trying to disagree with you I have been addressing the content of your posts. I am not obliged to argue someone elses point for them.

 

[andybird123]

My comments pertain to the ability of the Vive to be sold cheaper than the Rift. That is the conversation you joined, arguing about the pennies difference on each and every component of the Vive is not a conversation I want to be involved in, I'm purely interested in why someone would think as a whole the Vive will be sold "much cheaper" than the Rift. Its pointless to argue over the cost of components that amount to a couple of dollars when the question I actually asked was how does that amount to a £100 saving on point of sale. Again the comment I replied to when I joined the conversation was "the rift is custom but the vive is off the shelf".

I was under the impression that the DK1 was hand made in house at Oculus, but the DK2 and CV1 aren't iirc, like I say, I had a DK2 on day one and it had chinese shipping labels all over it - why would they make them in the US to ship them to china and then to the UK?

 

[Silent_Scone]

Without reading too much into the discussion, anyone who believes the VIVE will undercut Oculus is in la la land.

I just installed Win 8.1 on an old 60Gb SSD I have and the DK2 works fine with runtime 6 I think it was. So at least I am absolutely sure the DK2 works. Maybe worth just sticking with 8.1 for now, it's not like DX12 games are coming out of the woodwork is it

Thanks for the advice though, at least I know it is possible to get it working in Win 10.

Odd, I take it you went through the support page? Was pretty painless for me only Monday.

https://support.oculus.com/hc/en-us/articles/202741283-Get-Started


Also this demo was pretty good, the controls are well done: https://share.oculus.com/app/i-expect-you-to-die


I took the headset off during 'Elevator Horror' because nobody ain't' got no time for that.

 

[KelDG]

My comments pertain to the ability of the Vive to be sold cheaper than the Rift. That is the conversation you joined, arguing about the pennies difference on each and every component of the Vive is not a conversation I want to be involved in, I'm purely interested in why someone would think as a whole the Vive will be sold "much cheaper" than the Rift. Its pointless to argue over the cost of components that amount to a couple of dollars when the question I actually asked was how does that amount to a £100 saving on point of sale. Again the comment I replied to when I joined the conversation was "the rift is custom but the vive is off the shelf".

I was under the impression that the DK1 was hand made in house at Oculus, but the DK2 and CV1 aren't iirc, like I say, I had a DK2 on day one and it had chinese shipping labels all over it - why would they make them in the US to ship them to china and then to the UK?

So you want to argue the price of an item but not the price of the components that make it up, yet you again go on about the individual components yourself...... one rule for us and another for yourself?

Pennies difference? Whatever, you were banging on about the controllers comparing them to another product that cost $299 and I showed you the tech in the vive was much cheaper. Then I showed you the screens only account for 1/6th of the product cost on the Rift and is not the major cost, then that the sensors in the controllers are cheap off the shelf parts. All things you brought up first.

I don't need to argue someone elses original point, I have no interest in that. I was responding to the inaccuracies in your posts, which I have provided good information on, in a NICE way, to correct you and try to have in interesting conversation about this awesome tech.

To be perfectly honest you said you had a background in sourcing electrical components because of the business you used to have, so you should know all this already.

 

[Gregster]

C'mon chaps, we are all keen to get on the VR bandwagon and will need to see what is what in prices. I am seriously excited and just hope the Vive is reasonably priced and both do cross vendor support, as I don't really fancy or have the room for 2 units.

 

[KelDG]

C'mon chaps, we are all keen to get on the VR bandwagon and will need to see what is what in prices. I am seriously excited and just hope the Vive is reasonably priced and both do cross vendor support, as I don't really fancy or have the room for 2 units.

You are right, taking a step back now.

 

[andybird123]

So you want to argue the price of an item but not the price of the components that make it up, yet you again go on about the individual components yourself...... one rule for us and another for yourself?

No, I'm quite happy to discuss the cost of components IF it helps uncover a large disparity between the rift and the vive. Every single one of my posts has included a reference to costs as it pertains to comparing the rift and the vive. I have been polite, all I've tried to point out I that your posts don't further the actual discussion (comparing the price of the vive to the rift). Saying something is a cheap part on the vive only helps IF that same equivalent on the rift is an expensive part, but you haven't offered that. Sorry if you feel offended by that, but again, that was the conversation you joined.

Saying that the panel on the rift is $100 is fine, I have no issue with that, but seeing as its the same panels as the vive, it doesnt help explain why there should be a cost saving for the vive.

So far the only thing we have is the casing, which is plastic on the vive and plastic covered in fabric for the rift. There might be a cost saving there for the vive, but a big one?

IF the panels are expensive for the rift, they are for the vive, IF the sensors are expensive for the rift, they probably are more so for the Vive, and so on.
You're saying these are not expensive parts, which is fine, but that has no real bearing on saying that the vive will be cheaper than the rift, because it means they are cheap parts for the rift as well.

You've said that you think the Rift is being built in the US, and yeah that could affect cost per unit, but again, $100+?

The rift has audio components, the vive has an extra base station, a front camera and a pair of controllers... Are the extras on the vive going to be significantly less cost than the audio components? As in, if the controllers are $60, plus those other bits, is a dac and a pair of drivers going to be $150+? And if the controllers have higher resolution sensors than your allowing for and actually cost $100, are the audio components then going to be $200+?

 

[KelDG]

No, I'm quite happy to discuss the cost of components IF it helps uncover a large disparity between the rift and the vive. Every single one of my posts has included a reference to costs as it pertains to comparing the rift and the vive. I have been polite, all I've tried to point out I that your posts don't further the actual discussion (comparing the price of the vive to the rift). Saying something is a cheap part on the vive only helps IF that same equivalent on the rift is an expensive part, but you haven't offered that. Sorry if you feel offended by that, but again, that was the conversation you joined.

Saying that the panel on the rift is $100 is fine, I have no issue with that, but seeing as its the same panels as the vive, it doesnt help explain why there should be a cost saving for the vive.

So far the only thing we have is the casing, which is plastic on the vive and plastic covered in fabric for the rift. There might be a cost saving there for the vive, but a big one?

IF the panels are expensive for the rift, they are for the vive, IF the sensors are expensive for the rift, they probably are more so for the Vive, and so on.
You're saying these are not expensive parts, which is fine, but that has no real bearing on saying that the vive will be cheaper than the rift, because it means they are cheap parts for the rift as well.

You've said that you think the Rift is being built in the US, and yeah that could affect cost per unit, but again, $100+?

The rift has audio components, the vive has an extra base station, a front camera and a pair of controllers... Are the extras on the vive going to be significantly less cost than the audio components? As in, if the controllers are $60, plus those other bits, is a dac and a pair of drivers going to be $150+? And if the controllers have higher resolution sensors than your allowing for and actually cost $100, are the audio components then going to be $200+?

Right i'm going to bang my head against this wall one more time, this is my last response.

I never said the Vive would be cheaper than the Rift, I don't actually think it will be so jump off that point now, as I said in my 2nd post to YOU, I have no idea what they are going to sell it for. Never cared about that point not going to argue it.

I joined the conversation giving you good info on parts YOU were speculating about, then later correcting you where you were wrong on the price of some components. All I was doing was pointing you in the direction of the price of things which you were right off the mark with, that's the end of it.

Go re-read my posts with that in mind. I dare you, no i double dare you, go read them. I know you won't because you have already made your mind up on the matter. But remember its not my fault you seemed to get a bug up your ass about inferring my stance on the cost of the Vive overall.

I AM NOT ARGUING THAT THE VIVE WILL BE CHEAPER THAN THE RIFT NEVER HAVE NEVER WILL

And yes, capslock is cruise control for cool, see you in VR mate.

KelDG out.

 

[D.P.]

At CES every man and his dog had a VR headset, including all the companies you would least expect it. Heck, half the auto OEMs had VR headsets, everywhere you turned there were people donning VR headsets, often strapped to some exercise bike or gimbal flying simulator cage.

its going to be like TVs with a load of different players but a a few companies actually making the screens.

 

[andybird123]

I have re-read them. All I can see is someone making an argument over something that is completely tangential to the actual conversation just to want to be right about something, without actually providing any proof of anything.

I never commented on the cost of photodiodes, so how does you mentioning the cost of photodiodes equate to you correcting me? You were trying to drag me entirely off topic with something completely irrelevant to the conversation you joined.

 

[Pottsey]

Not sure if this has been posted as I missed a few pages. Alton Towers is opening up a new VR ride which is a combination of physically flying with VR helmets on. It looks kind of like the Air ride mixed with VR. https://www.galacticatours.com/

 

[arc@css]

^^ I saw that in the i today.

 

[KelDG]

I have re-read them. All I can see is someone making an argument over something that is completely tangential to the actual conversation just to want to be right about something, without actually providing any proof of anything.

I never commented on the cost of photodiodes, so how does you mentioning the cost of photodiodes equate to you correcting me? You were trying to drag me entirely off topic with something completely irrelevant to the conversation you joined.

I WASN'T ARGUING

Andy says - "the controllers have much the same sensors etc. as the headset, and there are two of them... if that Valve guy is correct and the screens are only 1/6th of the cost of the headset, the sensors must be quite costly, because there's very little else in the headset that can make also make up a sixth or more of the cost"

Then i explained the sensors were not expensive photodiodes/accelerometers/gyros..... Jesus do you even follow your own train of thought?

Damn you made me a liar.

If you still believe i'm trying to somehow attack you, you really have a warped sense of reality. Right I have to sooth my teething daughter now and I can really only deal with one kid at a time, so to save temptation :-

K thx bye, /ignore.

 

[ICDP]

Without reading too much into the discussion, anyone who believes the VIVE will undercut Oculus is in la la land.




Odd, I take it you went through the support page? Was pretty painless for me only Monday.

https://support.oculus.com/hc/en-us/articles/202741283-Get-Started


Also this demo was pretty good, the controls are well done: https://share.oculus.com/app/i-expect-you-to-die


I took the headset off during 'Elevator Horror' because nobody ain't' got no time for that.

I got it working now but am currently trying to tell myself the low resolution isn't a deal breaker. Tried DCS and Elite Dangerous and while the sense of stereoscopic 3D is amazing the low res is making the exercise pointless. Not being able to read cockpit dials in a sim bad for your virtual life

 

[Gregster]

I got it working now but am currently trying to tell myself the low resolution isn't a deal breaker. Tried DCS and Elite Dangerous and while the sense of stereoscopic 3D is amazing the low res is making the exercise pointless. Not being able to read cockpit dials in a sim bad for your virtual life

You need the sweetfx and HUD colour change. Helps quite a lot with ED but yer, res is the thing with it but I found the more I played, the less it was a hindrance.