2022 mini-budget discussion

[Firestar_3x]

I guess really what we need is some kind of independent definition of what 'rich' means.

There's the 'living wage' based on actual costs, we need a benchmark 'rich living wage' to compare costs of living as a 'rich' person .

Maybe wealth could be credited in the 'rich' calculations at a rate based ln spending that wealth to give yourself an equivalent income from now until the average age of death.

Will never happen, because how "Rich" you feel depends on the environment you find yourself in and how good you are with money.

Whilst earning 50k you could feel "Rich" in some northern slum with a average house price of 75k, whilst you would feel "Very Poor" in many expensive parts of London.

 

[413x]

A 600k mortgage will take £3k a month straight away, probably more than that now, add in all other bills and everything else, it really isn't rich. Sure if you can have that salary and live in a cheap area (Most cant) then it may feel better.

If you have a 600k mortgage you will pay off, you'll end up with an asset worth 600k. So I don't personally accept that argument.

If you retire with 600k just in house, I would class that as rich/wealthy.

I get your point that it's locked away however. And you won't feel rich in the moment.

 

[delta0]

If 125 is split equally between 2 people you're going to be taking home 7k ish a month.

7k a month is wealthy/rich. Its life changing money.

It takes all your problems away, you could clear even significant debts in months. I kind of find it distasteful to say it isn't rich in honest.

It does depends on where you live but yes I would agree it is exceptional amounts and would make you rich in most situations. I would hope they stay in the UK to be taxpayers. They are handing over £3k a month in tax, £4.4K if you include employers NI.

 

[delta0]

If you have a 600k mortgage you will pay off, you'll end up with an asset worth 600k. So I don't personally accept that argument.

If you retire with 600k just in house, I would class that as rich/wealthy.

I get your point that it's locked away however. And you won't feel rich in the moment.

This does depends on where you live. Anywhere in or surrounding London 600k will just about get you a house, many areas it may only be a flat and some places it won’t get you anything. That is a big expense burden and can make you comparably poor.

 

[413x]

It does depends on where you live but yes I would agree it is exceptional amounts and would make you rich in most situations. I would hope they stay in the UK to be taxpayers. They are handing over £3k a month in tax, £4.4K if you include employers NI.

It does. Living in the south east, if you have to, you aren't going to feel rich while paying your mortgage.
But that mortgage amount is a long term appreciating (probably? ) asset.

It still means your net wealth is likely accelerating, and rapidly.

But yeah. While you're paying it. You won't feel rich. But come retirement. You can, if you want, move. You can also probably retire early.

 

[delta0]

It does. Living in the south east, if you have to, you aren't going to feel rich while paying your mortgage.
But that mortgage amount is a long term appreciating (probably? ) asset.

It still means your net wealth is likely accelerating, and rapidly.

You would only benefit from that if you then sold and moved to a cheaper area or downsized. Otherwise it’s just locked in and has cost you a lot of money just to payoff.

 

[413x]

You would only benefit from that if you then sold and moved to a cheaper area or downsized. Otherwise it’s just locked in and has cost you a lot of money just to payoff.

I agree. But you have the option.
My parents are sat on 800k house and are locked in a battle over a 10k strip of land. I wish they'd just call it a day and move and live end of life with no issues.


They could, but they won't. But the fact they can? That too me makes them rich/wealthy.


To me is like people who have 50k in a savings account saying they are "poor" because "we can't touch that" just because it's not available in their current account.

 

[delta0]

I agree. But you have the option.
My parents are sat on 800k house and are locked in a battle over a 10k strip of land. I wish they'd just call it a day and move and live end of life with no issues.


They could, but they won't. But the fact they can? That too me makes them rich/wealthy.


To me is like people who have 50k in a savings account saying they are "poor" because "we can't touch that" just because it's not available in their current account.

Maybe if someone retires they may want to move and unlock that equity (assuming the equity is there as there is no guarantee). Until that time you don’t have the option. Even if you were lucky enough to buy a place you probably rented for a long time before that point. Many don’t even get that far so won’t be building up any assets even earning over 100k a year. I know many in that last category, they don’t want to put down roots.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

What's the matter? Nothing constructive to say?
No comebacks to any of the points raised?
No witty remarks about latte's and soy?

Shame.

Meanwhile .... Let us continue to discuss how a new Tory Chancellor is looking to scrap the cap on banker's bonuses, during a period of huge cost-of-living concerns for most "average joes". Because nothing really says "we're doing our best to help out all those who are struggling" like allowing bankers to earn even larger bonuses.

One has nothing to do with the other, to draw parallels is either jealousy or foolishness.

 

[McBain]

Confirmed, and well needed. If there's one thing bankers needed it's more money.

 

[Doobedoo]

A 600k mortgage will take £3k a month straight away, probably more than that now, add in all other bills and everything else, it really isn't rich. Sure if you can have that salary and live in a cheap area (Most cant) then it may feel better.

Dude try earning minimum wage and tell me 7k a month isn’t much. Some peoples perceptions are very skewed.

 

[delta0]

Dude try earning minimum wage and tell me 7k a month isn’t much. Some peoples perceptions are very skewed.

Are you saying they shouldn’t be earning this much? They will go somewhere else and pay that considerable amount of tax elsewhere.

 

[JamesH85]

The contrasts of some people world's is incredible hahaha.

 

[200sols]

Are you saying they shouldn’t be earning this much? They will go somewhere else and pay that considerable amount of tax somewhere else.

Yep, sometimes the vitriol shown towards higher earners in this country is quite baffling, its like success is vilified.

 

[-Ad-]

Yep, sometimes the vitriol shown towards higher earners in this country is quite baffling, its like success is vilified.

Yep agreed. Anyone who earns more is automatically a capitalist rich pig.

People forget those earning signfiicantly more pay significantly more tax anyway.

Typical British jealousy.

 

[Doobedoo]

Are you saying they shouldn’t be earning this much? They will go somewhere else and pay that considerable amount of tax elsewhere.

Where did you get that from? They can earn what they like, who actually cares. It’s just distasteful to millions of people in this country that are genuinely struggling, I mean actually struggling to pay bills and live very modest lives, not having to choose between going to Dubai or the Bahamas this winter. Arguing that these people actually need to earn more money when many haven’t got any is absolutely nuts.

 

[delta0]

Yep, sometimes the vitriol shown towards higher earners in this country is quite baffling, its like success is vilified.

It is strange that we want to keep grinding people down with ever more tax, the highest we’ve had since the 40s. It would be better to have a stronger more attractive economy which will lift everyone’s pay and create more tax income through salary growth. If we want to be more competitive with other countries and see salaries increase then this is necessary. The US average salary is double the UK, if we could achieve that then everyone wins.

 

[antijoke]

The contrasts of some people world's is incredible hahaha.

and the complete lack of empathy from those people as well is staggering.

 

[delta0]

Where did you get that from? They can earn what they like, who actually cares. It’s just distasteful to millions of people in this country that are genuinely struggling, I mean actually struggling to pay bills and live very modest lives, not having to choose between going to Dubai or the Bahamas this winter. Arguing that these people actually need to earn more money when many haven’t got any is absolutely nuts.

Why would that be their problem? There are many people not willing to come to the UK because of the tax burden.

 

[200sols]

It is strange that we want to keep grinding people down with ever more tax, the highest we’ve had since the 40s. It would be better to have a stronger more attractive economy which will lift everyone’s pay and create more tax income through salary growth. If we want to be more competitive with other countries and see salaries increase then this is necessary. The US average salary is double the UK, if we could achieve that then everyone wins.

You see, I actually think higher earners should pay more tax not less so I disagree with you there, the US not an example I want to follow either. What they have announced today is nothing short of disastrous IMO.