2022 mini-budget discussion

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Murphy said:
What do lockdowns have to do with the dire usage of public funds, messes during COVID, money and fraud being at an all time high? For that matter...Other countries had fewer lockdowns. We had it worse than most....You see we can both make unfounded claims that have little to no relation to anything.

Also as you've been repeatedly asked even if it was accepted that the foundation for 'this' mess (not sure what specific mess you're referring to but whatever) came from the previous government why hasn't this government done anything to sort that out, they've had 12 years to fix things.

Also last time i checked not everyone can read minds so if your going to use a three letter acronym it would be handy if you actually said what you're referring too because a google search for PPP returns purchasing power parities. If on the other hand you're referring to public-private-partnership and specifically using that to bolster your case that it was the previous government who caused this mess then you're going to need to explain what you think that government did so differently than the one before them who actually introduced the private finance initiative.
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As have you previously posted and directed to me, the internet is a wonderful source of information. Not hard for people to look it up.

Simple search PPP and labour, PPP and Tories

iea.org.uk

PPPs may offer poor value for money, argues study

A new study* from the Institute of Economic Affairs suggests that public-private partnerships (PPPs) have often failed to deliver good … Continue reading "PPPs may offer poor value for money, argues study"
iea.org.uk iea.org.uk

www.theguardian.com

Tories call for auditor to investigate PPP after Metronet collapse

· Brown 'was given many warnings of problems'· Previous inquiry pointed to £500m consultancy fees
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Yet, you are not understanding the foundation of the mess. I have said it many times, but it is constantly overlooked by some or they do not understand.

The chain of events has led us here. The pension problem was not caused overnight or caused over the last 5/10 years.

you keep posting " done anything to sort that out, they've had 12 years to fix" .

Labour had the same time to fix RTB BUT THEY DID NOT.
 
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StriderX said:
Blair just copied thatcher's economic policies... so it's her fault.

Exceedingly relevant post with the current scandal - https://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2008/04/making-history.html
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No, it is his fault for replicating it, and not understanding it while adding layers to it. The people of this country can't handle the hard truth, that we are in serious decline and want instant fixes from governments which itself accelerates, and compounds policy issues.
 
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Mrwong said:
As have you previously posted and directed to me, the internet is a wonderful source of information. Not hard for people to look it up.

Simple search PPP and labour, PPP and Tories

iea.org.uk

PPPs may offer poor value for money, argues study

A new study* from the Institute of Economic Affairs suggests that public-private partnerships (PPPs) have often failed to deliver good … Continue reading "PPPs may offer poor value for money, argues study"
iea.org.uk iea.org.uk

www.theguardian.com

Tories call for auditor to investigate PPP after Metronet collapse

· Brown 'was given many warnings of problems'· Previous inquiry pointed to £500m consultancy fees
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Yet, you are not understanding the foundation of the mess. I have said it many times, but it is constantly overlooked by some or they do not understand.

The chain of events has led us here. The pension problem was not caused overnight or caused over the last 5/10 years.

you keep posting " done anything to sort that out, they've had 12 years to fix" .

Labour had the same time to fix RTB BUT THEY DID NOT.
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Oh right, so you were talking about public-private-partnership, legislation introduced five years before the Blair administration. Why you're posting articles about it is not known though as not only has it been pointed out to you that the foundation for that 'mess' was laid by a Conservative government but also you've utterly failed to say what you think that government did so differently than the one before them who actually introduced the private finance initiative (are you even reading the posts you're responding to? Because you seem to have the really bad habit of not actually addressing the points people keep raising with you).

The reason you believe people are not understanding is because despite repeated attempts to educate you on the 'foundations' of these issues you keep raising it just doesn't seem to be sinking in, it's like talking to a brick wall.

Yes Labour didn't fix these problems you keep highlighting, no one has said otherwise, however if you're going to keep raising that point then it's only reasonable that we apply the same to the current government is it not? If you, and it's only you, think people should condemn Labour for not fixing the issues you raised then they, and you, should be calling on people to condemn the current government for also not fixing them, shouldn't you.
Mrwong said:
No, it is his fault for replicating it, and not understanding it while adding layers to it. The people of this country can't handle the hard truth, that we are in serious decline and want instant fixes from governments which itself accelerates, and compounds policy issues.
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You'll have to forgive me but it does seem like you're exhibiting extreme double standards here, from what i can make out it's not the fault of the group who introduced the schemes, legislation, rules, regulation. It's not the fault of a group who's been in charge for 12 years, but apparently it's the fault of a group who was in power between those two times, is that right?
 
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Murphy said:
Oh right, so you were talking about public-private-partnership, legislation introduced five years before the Blair administration. Why you're posting articles about it is not known though as not only has it been pointed out to you that the foundation for that 'mess' was laid by a Conservative government but also you've utterly failed to say what you think that government did so differently than the one before them who actually introduced the private finance initiative (are you even reading the posts you're responding to? Because you seem to have the really bad habit of not actually addressing the points people keep raising with you).

The reason you believe people are not understanding is because despite repeated attempts to educate you on the 'foundations' of these issues you keep raising it just doesn't seem to be sinking in, it's like talking to a brick wall.

Yes Labour didn't fix these problems you keep highlighting, no one has said otherwise, however if you're going to keep raising that point then it's only reasonable that we apply the same to the current government is it not? If you, and it's only you, think people should condemn Labour for not fixing the issues you raised then they, and you, should be calling on people to condemn the current government for also not fixing them, shouldn't you.

You'll have to forgive me but it does seem like you're exhibiting extreme double standards here, from what i can make out it's not the fault of the group who introduced the schemes, legislation, rules, regulation. It's not the fault of a group who's been in charge for 12 years, but apparently it's the fault of a group who was in power between those two times, is that right?
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You keep selecting the last 12 years, like a broken record. Yet fail to look at when the policies were established and the governments from then onwards who governed and abused those policies.

You conveniently overlooked the period when this country had a coalition government for 5 of those 12 years.

You keep highlighting the last 12 years, somehow seem to skip the periods when labour were in power.

You highlighted that Tories brought in PPP then jumped past the labour years and back to the Tories.

You can't recognise that Labour damage the pension system, you are unable to see how the chain of events have led us here will continue to.

You do not seem to understand voters want change now, but not change that will impact them in a negative way, pushing the problems forward each time.

We have a serious issue with the citizens in this country.

The latest help £400 discount, should not have been given, we will end up paying for that in the long run.
 
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Who would have thought the UK's last Tory fan would be myopic :D

It's like the numerous Coronavirus fiascos, the austerity project and leaving the EU are all someone else's fault. All of which is far more relevent to the current state.
 
CapitalOne said:
Who would have thought the UK's last Tory fan would be myopic :D

It's like the numerous Coronavirus fiascos, the austerity project and leaving the EU are all someone else's fault. All of which is far more relevent to the current state.
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Because you can't see the real problem, and do what most do in this country hide away from the problems, take no responsibility and hope it goes away. While blaming the nearest person to you, and unable to understanding it goes deeper.
The mind set of this population will continue to run down this country.
 
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Mrwong said:
You keep selecting the last 12 years, like a broken record. Yet fail to look at when the policies were established and the governments from then onwards who governed and abused those policies. You conveniently overlooked the period when this country had a coalition government for 5 of those 12 years. You keep highlighting the last 12 years, somehow seem to skip the periods when labour were in power. You highlighted that Tories brought in PPP then jumped past the labour years and back to the Tories. You can't recognise that Labour damage the pension system, you are unable to see how the chain of events have led us here will continue to. You do not seem to understand voters want change now, but not change that will impact them in a negative way, pushing the problems forward each time. We have a serious issue with the citizens in this country. The latest help £400 discount, should not have been given, we will end up paying for that in the long run.
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I don't keep 'selecting' the last 12 years, the governments done that by being in power for that length of time, you've repeatedly been told how many of the policies you've been moaning about were established long before Labour were in power and despite being asked to explain what you think your mythical Labour boogeyman government did differently that was so egregious, so different than the group who implemented the the things you're whining about or the group who's been in power for the last 12 years you've spectacularly failed to do so, instead just repeating the same tired old trope of people not being able to see the truth, how they hiding away from the problems, and how it's other who aren't looking deeper. (proper blue pill stuff)

No one is skipping the periods when Labour were in power and no one is pretending there wasn't a coalition government people are simply telling you that, as you've repeatedly said many times now, that the problems you keep prattling on about extend well beyond your idealogical blinkered view of blaming Labour. That for some reason you refuse to see that many of the problems stem from well before Labour were in power and yes it would've been good if they'd fixed them along with everything else that had been broken by previous administrations, just like it would've been good if the government that we've currently got fixed things, but they didn't and they're not. People are telling you that the group who probably deserve your ire the most are the ones who caused the problems to begin with and the ones who've had the power to fix these problem for more than a decade now.

The reason i can't see how Labour damaged the pension system is because, like normal, you've not even attempted to explain what this damage is, or how it's any different from when Lamont set the precedences of raiding the pension system for the first time. How you've come to the conclusion that i don't seem to understand that voters want change is anyone's guess because yet again you're doing a blooming awful job of explaining why. Also for you to say "but not change that will impact them in a negative way" is highly presumptive and dare i say it very duplicitous of you, especially after saying your only concern is how much worse or better a government is for you personally.

Also learn what paragraphs are.
 
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Murphy said:
I don't keep 'selecting' the last 12 years, the governments done that by being in power for that length of time, you've repeatedly been told how many of the policies you've been moaning about were established long before Labour were in power and despite being asked to explain what you think your mythical Labour boogeyman government did differently that was so egregious, so different than the group who implemented the the things you're whining about or the group who's been in power for the last 12 years you've spectacularly failed to do so, instead just repeating the same tired old trope of people not being able to see the truth, how they hiding away from the problems, and how it's other who aren't looking deeper. (proper blue pill stuff)

No one is skipping the periods when Labour were in power and no one is pretending there wasn't a coalition government people are simply telling you that, as you've repeatedly said many times now, that the problems you keep prattling on about extend well beyond your idealogical blinkered view of blaming Labour. That for some reason you refuse to see that many of the problems stem from well before Labour were in power and yes it would've been good if they'd fixed them along with everything else that had been broken by previous administrations, just like it would've been good if the government that we've currently got fixed things, but they didn't and they're not. People are telling you that the group who probably deserve your ire the most are the ones who caused the problems to begin with and the ones who've had the power to fix these problem for more than a decade now.

The reason i can't see how Labour damaged the pension system is because, like normal, you've not even attempted to explain what this damage is, or how it's any different from when Lamont set the precedences of raiding the pension system for the first time. How you've come to the conclusion that i don't seem to understand that voters want change is anyone's guess because yet again you're doing a blooming awful job of explaining why. Also for you to say "but not change that will impact them in a negative way" is highly presumptive and dare i say it very duplicitous of you, especially after saying your only concern is how much worse or better a government is for you personally.

Also learn what paragraphs are.
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I am typing on a mobile with a small screen.

I am putting sentences in short chucks.

You suggest that the Tories are to blame, I have said it is all those in power. You and other have only highlighted one group, most likely the group you do not like "Tories".

Tories made polices and labour made polices that both damage this country. However, you and others keep putting the blame on the Tories. Yet forget Labour introduce polices damaging to this country.
Blair has admitted that some of his polices have damaged this country.

You fail to understand that people can not accept the truth and are unwilling to forgo a lifestyle to correct our economic path.

Eventually, with all the plasters applied our socio economy made by previous governments, the system becomes more sensitive to lesser shocks.
 
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Is this where you chuck in your first hand experience of senior civil servants subverting the government again?

Your hubris is strong. Although you appear to be backpedaling to "they are all as bad as eachother".
 
Mrwong said:
The mind set of this population will continue to run down this country.
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As said by one of your very own deities:

Margaret Thatcher:

there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first.
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Mrwong said:
You suggest that the Tories are to blame...
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No I'm saying they're largely to blame because a) in most cases they were the ones who initially introduced the legislation that made most of the things you're crying about possible, and b) they've had the power to change things if they wanted for more than a decade.
Mrwong said:
I have said it is all those in power. You and other have only highlighted one group, most likely the group you do not like "Tories".
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No, you've been mostly consistent in blaming a government from almost a quarter of a century ago as if for you history started 20-25 years ago despite making a big deal about how it's others who need to look at the 'foundations'.
Mrwong said:
Tories made polices and labour made polices that both damage this country. However, you and others keep putting the blame on the Tories. Yet forget Labour introduce polices damaging to this country.
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Yes and nearly all of the things you've moaned about so far have been policies that were introduced by a Conservative government, point me to a policy that you consider detrimental to the county that Labour introduced and I'd be more than happy to discuss the how, who, causes and effects of such. And before you say it no Brown raiding pensions is not that because like i said Lamont set the precedence, and you've not said how Brown raiding pensions was detrimental to the country.
Mrwong said:
Blair has admitted that some of his polices have damaged this country.
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So, no one has said they were perfect. However, as you've repeatedly been told now, you've utterly failed to not only give an example of such a policy but also say how you think such a policy has damaged the country.
Mrwong said:
You fail to understand that people can not accept the truth and are unwilling to forgo a lifestyle to correct our economic path.

Eventually, with all the plasters applied our socio economy made by previous governments, the system becomes more sensitive to lesser shocks.
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What does that have to do with the price of eggs?
 
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