20mph residential speed limit (replacing 30mph)

Rroff · 19 Sep 2023 at 06:35

Troop said:
Petition to get the 20MPH removed, I've just signed it.
Sign up or I can see it spreading to other parts of the UK

Petition: We want the Welsh Government to rescind and remove the disastrous 20mph law

The new 20mph law is coming into force on the 17th September and it will mark the end of having socialism in power in Wales. Welsh Government claim to have supporting evidence stating that reducing to 20mph EVERWHERE saves lives! Yet we get flyers merely claiming that it will, and opinions...

petitions.senedd.wales

Petition numbers constantly climbing even overnight - don't think it is very popular with people though whether that will have any effect I dunno - previous ones has been written off as "not representative of the broader population"...

kona786 · 19 Sep 2023 at 06:45

Loads of 20mph roads in London now. With humps or camera's. Not so bad now I have an automatic and a more laid back car.

On the flip side there are some 60mph roads that I can barely do 40mph on at they're so narrow and winding.

Rroff · 19 Sep 2023 at 07:04

kona786 said:
Loads of 20mph roads in London now. With humps or camera's. Not so bad now I have an automatic and a more laid back car.

On the flip side there are some 60mph roads that I can barely do 40mph on at they're so narrow and winding.

I probably (definitely) don't have the best of vehicles for it but I find it worse with automatics.

Nasher · 19 Sep 2023 at 08:25

kona786 said:
Loads of 20mph roads in London now. With humps or camera's. Not so bad now I have an automatic and a more laid back car.

On the flip side there are some 60mph roads that I can barely do 40mph on at they're so narrow and winding.

Or as just so pothole filled or collapsed along the edges you can't safely go anywhere near 60

goldy6660 · 19 Sep 2023 at 08:37

I'm sure most of these rules are made by folk who don't drive, there's some real use cases for the 20 such as near schools but some common sense surely needs to be applied

Yaayuh! · 19 Sep 2023 at 08:40

I'm good with this so long as it's residential and busy high-streets etc rather than just a straight swap.

Though as I said when this came here up a little while ago (is there another thread?), I wouldn't really mind all that much, I'd just set the cruise/limiter to 20 instead of 30.

Shadowness · 19 Sep 2023 at 08:42

How are they going to enforce this for cyclists? Without sounding cocky, it isn’t hard to cycle at 20mph or even higher in most places.

goldy6660 · 19 Sep 2023 at 08:45

Yaayuh! said:
I'm good with this so long as it's residential and busy high-streets etc rather than just a straight swap.

Though as I said when this came here up a little while ago (is there another thread?), I wouldn't really mind all that much, I'd just set the cruise/limiter to 20 instead of 30.

From what I'm hearing it's not always a straight swap, some roads are still 30 so relies on you to keep your wits about you (you are anyway as your driving but you have to be that bit extra cautious)

scrivz69 · 19 Sep 2023 at 09:01

Pretty much all of York inside the ring road is 20mph and has been for a few years. No one seems to take any notice of it.

413x · 19 Sep 2023 at 09:07

goldy6660 said:
From what I'm hearing it's not always a straight swap, some roads are still 30 so relies on you to keep your wits about you (you are anyway as your driving but you have to be that bit extra cautious)

Its nearly all 30 to 20.
I think its like single digit percentages that are still 30

CaptainRAVE · 19 Sep 2023 at 09:13

Shadowness said:
How are they going to enforce this for cyclists? Without sounding cocky, it isn’t hard to cycle at 20mph or even higher in most places.

How are they going to enforce it for motorists? Barely even see a police car anymore.

sovietspybob · 19 Sep 2023 at 09:16

Shadowness said:
How are they going to enforce this for cyclists? Without sounding cocky, it isn’t hard to cycle at 20mph or even higher in most places.

I don't believe there is a limit for non motorised vehicles like bicycles, so yeah if you're fit enough and where you're going is flat enough it'd be quicker to cycle.

Problem is last time i looked outside Wales is anything but flat and ideal for cycling anywhere

b0rn2sk8 · 19 Sep 2023 at 09:20

I’m not against 20mph but blanket application is dumb.

Each individual road should be assessed on its own merits and risks and the appropriate speed limit applied, if that’s 20, that’s fine.

Also why do we stick to 10mph increments? Other countries have options to apply an X5 limit and a lot of times that makes sense.

kona786 · 19 Sep 2023 at 10:41

Rroff said:
I probably (definitely) don't have the best of vehicles for it but I find it worse with automatics.

Mine's a 8spd auto. It's already in 5th gear by 30 mph... If my memory serves me correct.

I barely go over 2000rpm on my journeys.
And yes I agree 20mph is silly slow for the blanket deployment.

Lopéz · 19 Sep 2023 at 10:45

Wales has been moving in this direction for years.

Most NSL areas were downgraded to 50 a few years ago.
Many NSL areas were downgraded to 40 and even 30 at around the same time.
The 30 to 20 is just the latest initiative in the program.

413x · 19 Sep 2023 at 10:47

kona786 said:
Mine's a 8spd auto. It's already in 5th gear by 30 mph... If my memory serves me correct.

I barely go over 2000rpm on my journeys.
And yes I agree 20mph is silly slow for the blanket deployment.

Mines a 4 speed auto!

I tested it last night. 20 is a gear down than 30.
30 is about 1800 rpm
20 is about 2000-2100 rpm

On a straight, cruising, flat

Resident · 19 Sep 2023 at 10:48

413x said:
-illegal. Scooters/bikes will be faster than cars
-cycling...

This is the goal.

It's a way to push people out of cars. Why drive when other methods are faster and in the case of cycles, exempt from the speed limit...

Greebo · 19 Sep 2023 at 10:49

Firegod said:
I was laughing at the ridiculous braking stats they gave on the news for 20 vs 30 mph as a reason. I had to brake from 30mph other day as a set of lights ahead changed to red. I stopped safely and quickly within a short distance. Easily within 10m. I'm sure they were saying on the news it was 23m to stop from 30mph. I disagree with that. Sounds like they're using stats from the 1970s!

Stopping distances | Brake

Find out more about the link between vehicle speed and stopping distances

www.brake.org.uk

You have to factor in reaction time and although yours may well be formula 1 levels, I am pretty sure from memory the average reaction time is 0.75 to 1s. You have covered more than 10m before you even start to brake. Plus people have a lot more distractions nowadays so although cars stop quicker, people dont react as quick so the overall stopping distances are probably similar still.

Having just been on a speed awareness course the stat that blw my mind the most was the difference between 30mph and 31mph. At 31mph you will still be travelling at 8mph at the point where the 30mph has stopped.

kona786 · 19 Sep 2023 at 10:51

413x said:
Mines a 4 speed auto!

I tested it last night. 20 is a gear down than 30.
30 is about 1800 rpm
20 is about 2000-2100 rpm

On a straight, cruising, flat

I'll make a note of my gear and rpm next time I'm out at those speeds.

4spd... Dayyyum. Congrats on running an antique

Resident · 19 Sep 2023 at 10:52

Firegod said:
I was laughing at the ridiculous braking stats they gave on the news for 20 vs 30 mph as a reason. I had to brake from 30mph other day as a set of lights ahead changed to red. I stopped safely and quickly within a short distance. Easily within 10m. I'm sure they were saying on the news it was 23m to stop from 30mph. I disagree with that. Sounds like they're using stats from the 1970s!

Stopping distances | Brake

Find out more about the link between vehicle speed and stopping distances

www.brake.org.uk

It's possible to stop a 13 ton double deck bus from 30 in ~25metres (though with passengers on board I wouldn't recommended it)