20mph residential speed limit (replacing 30mph)

Feek said:
Where will this stupidity stop? Give it a few years and some bright spark will decide it should be 15mph.
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That will certainly save another 6 - 10 lives and quite a few injuries if you don't count frustrated motorists in fist fights at the roadside or worse at home.

There has to be a sense check. Are six or more live's saved justified? If not, how many?
 
if you don't want kids and cyclists in the road teach them ..or let Darwinism take it's toll .. way to many special people these days and way to much PC every where you go .. all screaming we have rights .. well guess what normal people do to ..
soon it will be ban everything and live in a bubble or a 15min city ??
 
flea.rider said:
if you don't want kids and cyclists in the road teach them ..or let Darwinism take it's toll .. way to many special people these days and way to much PC every where you go .. all screaming we have rights .. well guess what normal people do to ..
soon it will be ban everything and live in a bubble or a 15min city ??
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Don't forget they're also allowed/entitled now to be offended by EVERYTHING, even stuff they don't do themselves! :rolleyes::cry:
 
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Lol, just drive slower. It’s not that hard!

Around us it’s probably reduced the average speed to 25 mph. Which is an improvement on the 35 mph that it was before. In residential areas slower is safer.
 
Driving back from the shop, doing 20mph and it's just too slow, the journey back is mostly uphill so was 2nd gear higher rpm.

It gave me enough time for my mind to wander off and look what cars people had on their drive, saw a nice E30 BMW I never noticed before, guess that's a plus...Until I plow into a kid due to due care and attention, but its ok because they'll survive a ton and a half worth of metal hitting them cause i'll be doing 20.
 
Uncle_Gravy said:
Driving back from the shop, doing 20mph and it's just too slow, the journey back is mostly uphill so was 2nd gear higher rpm.

It gave me enough time for my mind to wander off and look what cars people had on their drive, saw a nice E30 BMW I never noticed before, guess that's a plus...Until I plow into a kid due to due care and attention, but its ok because they'll survive a ton and a half worth of metal hitting them cause i'll be doing 20.
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Nearly correct.


A recent review identified the studies which had produced the most reliable modern estimates. The results from one of these studies is presented in figure 1, which shows a fatality risk of1.5% at 20 mph versus 8% at 30 mph.
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You're more than 5X more likely to kill someone at 30 than 20.

I know I'd rather be hit be a driver not paying attention at 20mph than at 30mph by a driver who was, thank you very much.
 
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Something more of an aside but compared to 30, at 15-20 MPH you tend to feel every bump and contour of the road through the steering wheel and to some extent the seat - I was following a HGV for a mile or so which was having to stay to around 20 due to road layout vs the vehicle size and it was surprising how different the road felt and how much more the wheel was turning a bit with the contours compared to doing it at 30.
 
I understand for areas like schools, but it's been taken too far now. Many main roads are residential so journey times will increase, and I doubt traffic on the roads for longer is ideal with regards to pollution.
 
ebilcake said:
I understand for areas like schools, but it's been taken too far now. Many main roads are residential so journey times will increase, and I doubt traffic on the roads for longer is ideal with regards to pollution.
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In the short term, especially if we don't have majority EV or similar adoption sooner yes lots of 20MPH roads are a huge problem - especially pertinent to diesels but also have implications for petrol engines and catalytic converters, when you aren't up to optimal operating temperature fuel economy and emissions suffer significantly. Longer distances at up to 20 MPH will make it harder for many vehicles to get up to temperature and many vehicles produce significantly more pollution at speeds just below 20MPH (and with people probably doing ~18MPH to stick to the 20 limit that will happen) so if they are spending longer time under those conditions that isn't good at all.

Particulate filters, EGR, various sensors, and eventually big ticket items like the turbo are all going to be impacted by this, so if you are stuck in the middle of lots of these new 20s a petrol engine car, probably without a turbo, would probably be a good consideration over a diesel for future purchases.

But there might be an element of accelerationism here - using this aspect, which they have imposed, to further take the war against motorists...
 
Uncle_Gravy said:
Driving back from the shop, doing 20mph and it's just too slow, the journey back is mostly uphill so was 2nd gear higher rpm.

It gave me enough time for my mind to wander off and look what cars people had on their drive, saw a nice E30 BMW I never noticed before, guess that's a plus...Until I plow into a kid due to due care and attention, but its ok because they'll survive a ton and a half worth of metal hitting them cause i'll be doing 20.
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Sounds like you shouldn't be driving tbh.
 
Rroff said:
In the short term, especially if we don't have majority EV or similar adoption sooner yes lots of 20MPH roads are a huge problem - especially pertinent to diesels but also have implications for petrol engines and catalytic converters, when you aren't up to optimal operating temperature fuel economy and emissions suffer significantly. Longer distances at up to 20 MPH will make it harder for many vehicles to get up to temperature and many vehicles produce significantly more pollution at speeds just below 20MPH (and with people probably doing ~18MPH to stick to the 20 limit that will happen) so if they are spending longer time under those conditions that isn't good at all.

Particulate filters, EGR, various sensors, and eventually big ticket items like the turbo are all going to be impacted by this, so if you are stuck in the middle of lots of these new 20s a petrol engine car, probably without a turbo, would probably be a good consideration over a diesel for future purchases.

But there might be an element of accelerationism here - using this aspect, which they have imposed, to further take the war against motorists...
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Cars aren't really geared to travel at 20mph. For many that is to slow for 3rd gear which means more emissions and noise.
 
inogen said:


You're more than 5X more likely to kill someone at 30 than 20.

I know I'd rather be hit be a driver not paying attention at 20mph than at 30mph by a driver who was, thank you very much.
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And you are 15X more likely to kill someone at 20 than 10mph..

I don't think anyone (sane) would not want to get hit at a slower speed if everything else was equal, but everything isn't necessarily equal.. for example what is the change of risk of being hit in the first place? is there any?

There are small observational studies done, which looked at the pre/post data for 20mph limits in Belfast:
www.qub.ac.uk

20 mph speed limits have seemingly little impact on crashes, casualties or driver speed

Restricting speed limits to 20 mph in town and city centres doesn’t seem to reduce road traffic collisions, casualties, or driver speed, finds a 3-year study of its roll-out in one major capital city.
www.qub.ac.uk www.qub.ac.uk
Our findings showed that a city centre 20 mph intervention had little impact on long-term outcomes including road traffic collisions, casualties and speed, except for a reduction in traffic volume. Future 20 mph speed limit interventions should consider the fidelity [enforcement], context and scale of implementation.
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Even that ROSPA report had a more balanced views in its conclusions:
20mph limits are most appropriate for roads where average speeds are already low, below 24mph, and the layout and use of the road also gives the clear impression that a 20mph speed or below is the most appropriate. Although a high proportion of urban roads are suitable for 20mph limits, RoSPA does not believe that 20mphspeed limits are suitable for every road in a local authority area. They should be targeted at roads that are primarily residential in nature and on town or city streets where pedestrian and cyclist movements are high (or potentially high), such as around schools, shops, markets, playgrounds and other areas. Roads which are not suitable for 20mph limits are major through routes.
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Things can rarely be simplified down to a univariate argument and I don't think it's invalid to wonder what is the best compromise between safety and impinging unnecessarily on the majority of people, although ironically I can find two polls on the 20mph limit, one says 61% are against the 20mph limit, the other says 62% are in favour..
 
It feels like another modelling decision that will disappear in 2-4 years when the realise its a stupid idea. Government's struggle to row back stupid.
 
Wales.jpg
 
Would you look at that! Alfa 146. Had one of those. Great car.

Anyway, cars bring out the worst in some people for some reason. Self identifying as Lewis Hamilton without all the skills!
 
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