20mph residential speed limit (replacing 30mph)

[jpaul]

welsh minister said it would save 10 lives/year

with quiet EV's these definitely take some adaption as cyclist/pedestrian the reduced noise means you need to look more - things are closer than they appear

Size & width of modern cars , especially SUV's , on roads from the dark ages, surviving as a cyclist has become harder, so 20mph offers some redress,
as a motorist too though - it's tedious, analogue speedo almost needs to be non-linear so you can monitor deviation closely.

 

[throwaway4372]

318k signatures

 

[Werewolf]

Remember we now live in an era, where you have to be told to not fall off a ladder/look where you're going... Then promptly sue everyone possible for your own mistake!

So you never watched the green cross code safety adverts in the 70's?

And as someone put it "if there is a warning in a manual that first appears in the XX's, you know it's because someone needed it years earlier". Every single warning in a manual or on a device or sign is because someone demonstrated the need for it, including things like "don't drink the oil" (or something very similar) in 60's era car manuals...(someone posted a picture of that from an old ford manual on another forum).

It's also worth noting that a lot of people used to fall off ladders because they didn't know how to use them, and you do actually need some instruction to use them safely especially longer ones or those that are used anywhere but perfectly flat ground.
My dad has some ladders he bought back in the 80's, they still have the very faded warning labels on them, and some insulating tape he used to make the "this angle" indicator clearer, and he was routinely using them to do things like go onto people's roofs to fix fallen tiles. So it's not a new thing, it's just newer that it's no longer an acceptable thing to send the YTS lad up a ladder without some instruction.

 

[Alibaba99]

Nearly correct.

https://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/advice-services/road-safety/drivers/20-mph-zone-factsheet.pdf

You're more than 5X more likely to kill someone at 30 than 20.

I know I'd rather be hit be a driver not paying attention at 20mph than at 30mph by a driver who was, thank you very much.

You seem to have forgotten that cars have brakes. So the 30mph driver who is paying attention to his surroundings won't be doing 30 by the time the impact occurs.

 

[Rroff]

There are going to be situations where even an attentive driver can't react in time to prevent a full speed impact, but I do think there is a risk of increasing impacts overall as people will be on average switched off a bit more even though there should be a reduction in the higher speed ones.

 

[Uncle_Gravy]

Sounds like you shouldn't be driving tbh.

You're probably right tbh

 

[Removed User 345456]

So you never watched the green cross code safety adverts in the 70's?

And as someone put it "if there is a warning in a manual that first appears in the XX's, you know it's because someone needed it years earlier". Every single warning in a manual or on a device or sign is because someone demonstrated the need for it, including things like "don't drink the oil" (or something very similar) in 60's era car manuals...(someone posted a picture of that from an old ford manual on another forum).

It's also worth noting that a lot of people used to fall off ladders because they didn't know how to use them, and you do actually need some instruction to use them safely especially longer ones or those that are used anywhere but perfectly flat ground.
My dad has some ladders he bought back in the 80's, they still have the very faded warning labels on them, and some insulating tape he used to make the "this angle" indicator clearer, and he was routinely using them to do things like go onto people's roofs to fix fallen tiles. So it's not a new thing, it's just newer that it's no longer an acceptable thing to send the YTS lad up a ladder without some instruction.

In a nutshell...

 

[Blackjack Davy]

Does Drakeford drive or is he a cyclist? Asking for a friend.

Probably takes a private helicopter flight to photo opportunities like Sunak. Then again maybe not.

 

[Nasher]

So you never watched the green cross code safety adverts in the 70's?

And as someone put it "if there is a warning in a manual that first appears in the XX's, you know it's because someone needed it years earlier". Every single warning in a manual or on a device or sign is because someone demonstrated the need for it, including things like "don't drink the oil" (or something very similar) in 60's era car manuals...(someone posted a picture of that from an old ford manual on another forum).

It's also worth noting that a lot of people used to fall off ladders because they didn't know how to use them, and you do actually need some instruction to use them safely especially longer ones or those that are used anywhere but perfectly flat ground.
My dad has some ladders he bought back in the 80's, they still have the very faded warning labels on them, and some insulating tape he used to make the "this angle" indicator clearer, and he was routinely using them to do things like go onto people's roofs to fix fallen tiles. So it's not a new thing, it's just newer that it's no longer an acceptable thing to send the YTS lad up a ladder without some instruction.

Exactly, we are messing with our evolution by hand holding the morons who would normally do something dumb and die

 

[inogen]

You seem to have forgotten that cars have brakes. So the 30mph driver who is paying attention to his surroundings won't be doing 30 by the time the impact occurs.

In which case they aren’t hitting people at 30mph are they?!?

or are you saying that people don’t ever get hit at 30mph because every single time someone is run over by a driver at 30mph they’re not hit at 30mph because the driver is paying just the right amount of attention to brake and bend the laws of physics?

 

[Hades]

It will cause more local pollution and noise because some cars will need to be in 2nd gear.

Exactly this. At 30mph my car is happy in 4th. At around and just under 20mph I have to keep changing between between 2nd and 3rd. So I'm in a higher gear on a longer journey than before.

 

[Tykey]

Urgh i go back on my previous post in this thread of being in support of these new 20mph limits, many buses around here are now not keeping up with their published timetables and making some journeys just too long to endure, and i had a car journey yesterday through several 20's, it was just too slow and a bit silly. i understand that 20mph impacts are less harmful than 30mph impacts but where does it stop? 15mph? 10mph? 30mph was fine imo, not too fast to be dangerous but not too slow to make decent progress. 20mph's outside schools and heavily built residential areas maybe yeh.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Maybe 20mph speed limits are seen as the way to get drivers to not exceed 30?

Strikes me as just another way example of how the “entitled” have continued to flaunt current laws until such time that another approach has needed to be taken.

So, my thanks to the lemmings and the entitled for being the probable catalyst!

 

[Basill]

They clearly didnt do any research on how this affects different cars, 20mph in a manual is horrible.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

More people get injured by cycles than cars in city centres. We should ban them!

Have you got a source for this?

 

[Rannoch]

They clearly didnt do any research on how this affects different cars, 20mph in a manual is horrible.

It sure is.

 

[Rroff]

Maybe 20mph speed limits are seen as the way to get drivers to not exceed 30?

Strikes me as just another way example of how the “entitled” have continued to flaunt current laws until such time that another approach has needed to be taken.

So, my thanks to the lemmings and the entitled for being the probable catalyst!

According to the latest RAC study the average speed on 30 MPH roads is 31 though half of drivers exceed the speed limit - most studies come up with something similar, while the average speed on 20s is 22, 24 or much closer to 30 depending on study with upwards of 80% of drivers exceeding the speed limit depending on study.

They clearly didnt do any research on how this affects different cars, 20mph in a manual is horrible.

I think it depends a lot on the gearing of the car - some manuals aren't bad for it, I've not really driven one which is horrible for it, while some people seem happy with it in their automatics but in mine it is terrible - especially the pickup which does this thing once you get to around 20 where it kind of holds in gear longer than it *should* and fuel economy plummets - if you go a little faster it changes gear and is at a more appropriate RPM - though I can swap it into manual range and keep working the range to sort that but then it defeats somewhat the purpose of having an automatic.

 

[200sols]

They clearly didnt do any research on how this affects different cars, 20mph in a manual is horrible.

I don't have any issues in mine tbh.

 

[Diagro]

Unless they put signage up. I'd stick with 30mph.
Common knowledge and widely accepted that unsigned residential is 30mph.
And that's how it will stay in my mind, unless they purposely sign it as 20mph

 

[MrKnifey]

This is from the same Government who trialed a 50mph zone near me instead of 70mph, during lockdown, to compare noise and emissions pollution.. Funny enough they said it was lower at 50mph.. nothing to do with the fact the roads were quieter..