300 GBP tops and insane audio... though it will destroy your neighbours sanity.

[james.miller]

Gain control is not room correction. Gain control merely matches the level of the drivers. room correction time aligns them, corrects for any imbalances in the frequency and phase response. RC is soo much more than gain control.

 

[Tired9]

Gain control is not room correction. Gain control merely matches the level of the drivers. room correction time aligns them, corrects for any imbalances in the frequency and phase response. RC is soo much more than gain control.

With 3 speakers?

The room they are in is not the largest of rooms, perhaps that is why, we are talking 20ft / 30 foot.

 

[james.miller]

With 3 speakers?

The room they are in is not the largest of rooms, perhaps that is why, we are talking 20ft / 30 foot.

with as many as required.


eg

Dirac Live® Room Correction
Hear your music – not your room
No matter how much or how little you’ve invested in your sound system, the room will always impact the sound quality – an all too often overlooked fact. Dirac Live Room Correction software deals with these challenges in a unique way. It addresses issues that no other product on the market can. That’s why it’s been adopted by the world’s leading manufacturers of high-end audio-video equipment and praised by audiophiles and music creators all over the world.

Room correction solutions have been around for decades. Still, at Dirac, we realized they only act as advanced equalizers, smoothing the frequency curve but totally missing the timing aspect. Room reflections and misaligned speakers cause sounds to arrive at your ears with different time delays. These time shifts blur the sound image. That’s why we developed Dirac Live. Based on patented technology, Dirac Live optimizes the sound with respect to frequency and time. It does so not only in one sweet spot but over the whole listening area, be it a chair, a sofa, or an auditorium.

some kind of control over a sub is vitally important when trying to integrate it. even basic phase adjustment is better than nothing and the 400.1 doesnt have that. You have no way to match the phase of the sub and and main speakers, let alone anything more complicated.

You can take this as me dumping on you if you like. I'm not though. Having been there and done that, built my own subwoofers, played with all sorts of kit, i know from experience what that system is likely to sound like. very loud, but not great for critical listening. And hey if that's your bag it's all groovy, but SQ it ain't.

 

[Tired9]

Phase... quite literally just swap the RCA leads around, job done.

You just said it depends on the room, then go and say that SQ it is not.

Well I can tell you, if you limit the subwoofer because that is the first issue, blend it in properly... it begins to sound like a good hi-fi, no it is not a surround setup which the stuff you are pointing out are all surround sound options.

I use it as a 2.1 system, in stereo.

I made this point early on.

All the subwoofer does is make up for the lack of ability that smaller drivers all have saving money at the expense of using up more room.

There is no speakers I have used that go as low cleanly as with a dedicated sub or sound as great separating the sub frequencies from the mid bass - high frequencies.

 

[SonicSW20]

Phase... quite literally just swap the RCA leads around, job done.

That only lets you flip the phase (aka 180 degrees). What do you do if the correct phase for your application is 90 degrees?

 

[Tired9]

That only lets you flip the phase (aka 180 degrees). What do you do if the correct phase for your application is 90 degrees?

Well you have an issue then don't you.. but I don't have this issue so...

 

[turbot1984]

Does your monitor or TV have a headphone out?

No it doesn't unfortunately ... mobo has this according to spec - Realtek® ALC1220 Codec + ESS SABRE9018Q2C combo DAC, here's piccy ...

 

[turbot1984]

Oh, just to add, case has a headphone socket?

 

[Tired9]

No it doesn't unfortunately ... mobo has this according to spec - Realtek® ALC1220 Codec + ESS SABRE9018Q2C combo DAC, here's piccy ...

Most onboard solutions are fine, so long as you put them to their highest sampling rates, for example the old ALC 889 would deliver it's best results at the highest sampling rate... does depend on how well implemented it is on the motherboard, but you should not have any worries with a modern sound chip... hopefully!

You have optical out, does your receiver have this?

If so there is your answer, you will need to buy an optical cable with measurements that won't restrict you from placing the amp where you want to, as some of these optical leads are very short.

Do that, set up your speakers to the A-B or front speaker terminals, change the audio mode on the receiver to Direct / stereo and you have a 2.0 setup.

AVR receivers are awesome amps for a simple setup like this but produce a tonne of heat and are generally massive.

It was the setup I used before going smaller.

The amp has a Subwoofer pre-out, if you don't want to be experiencing sub 30hz bass, then you can get away with going with cheaper home audio subwoofers.

It will need to be active and have it's own amplifier.

 

[turbot1984]

Most onboard solutions are fine, so long as you put them to their highest sampling rates, for example the old ALC 889 would deliver it's best results at the highest sampling rate... does depend on how well implemented it is on the motherboard, but you should not have any worries with a modern sound chip... hopefully!

You have optical out, does your receiver have this?

If so there is your answer, you will need to buy an optical cable with measurements that won't restrict you from placing the amp where you want to, as some of these optical leads are very short.

Do that, set up your speakers to the A-B or front speaker terminals, change the audio mode on the receiver to Direct / stereo and you have a 2.0 setup.

AVR receivers are awesome amps for a simple setup like this but produce a tonne of heat and are generally massive.

It was the setup I used before going smaller.

The amp has a Subwoofer pre-out, if you don't want to be experiencing sub 30hz bass, then you can get away with going with cheaper home audio subwoofers.

It will need to be active and have it's own amplifier.

OK thanks ... yes amp has optical in so will try that and connect up my old Jamo sub, just need to go and find all the cables now

 

[JasonM]

Most onboard solutions are fine, so long as you put them to their highest sampling rates,

All the gigabyte onboard audio i've tested is very poor, lots of distortion and background noise.

Realtek onboard typically has a dynamic range of 97 dBA when tested in RMAA, my Asus ST has a dynamic range of over 133 dBA. But it's not just numbers, better sound card / external DAC also sounds better.

 

[Tired9]

All the gigabyte onboard audio is very poor, lots of distortion and background noise.

Realtek onboard typically has a dynamic range of 97 dBA when tested in RMAA, my Asus ST has a dynamic range of over 133 dBA. But it's not just numbers, better sound card / external DAC also sounds better.

Gigabyte have been catching a lot of flack recently...
I had no issues with my X570 Aorus Elite, I plugged my X2HR's into it and it sounded pretty good, but as a rule I tend to use my external DAC / amp for those purely to drive them better.

The MSI B550I MPG Gaming Max is also rather good, I have only used my in-ear Beyerdynamic DTX-102's

 

[james.miller]

Phase... quite literally just swap the RCA leads around, job done.

phase is not a binary state, it's not in or out of phase. it's constantly variable through 360 degrees. the phase response of a driver will vary throughout it's range. the box the driver is in has an effect. ports have an effect. crossovers have an effect. eg, first order crossovers found in budget speakers will push a driver 90 degrees out of phase at the point where the response is 6db down, as i recall. none of it is as simple as swapping rca leads around. That wouldnt do anything but swap your left and right channel anyway. And yes, i know what you meant - reversing the wiring on the rca - but that would only shift everything 180 degrees out of phase. Not a solution.

 

[Tired9]

phase is not a binary state, it's not in or out of phase. it's constantly variable through 360 degrees. the phase response of a driver will vary throughout it's range. the box the driver is in has an effect. ports have an effect. crossovers have an effect. eg, first order crossovers found in budget speakers will push a driver 90 degrees out of phase at the point where the response is 6db down, as i recall. none of it is as simple as swapping rca leads around. That wouldnt do anything but swap your left and right channel anyway. And yes, i know what you meant - reversing the wiring on the rca - but that would only shift everything 180 degrees out of phase. Not a solution.

What if the setup in question don't have this issue?

What if you only bring this up for argument sake?

Can a cheaper solution deliver all-round goodness?

Is a cheaper solution ever going to fill in that 1% spot which drivers people to obsessive lengths...? I highly doubt it.

I have Some X2HR's, these are the most expensive headphones I have bought, everyone loves them generally for their sound at such a low price.. and to me this is not a low price.
Then I needed separate gaming headphones because the X2HR's are not light on the head....

Some HyperX Stinger Cloud.... I was completely happy listening to them and found no issues in what they sounded like especially for 30 quid and I thought about it, are the X2HR's that much better? Not really, they offer a small improvement compared to what you pay.

Then I thought, just how much more better can things get when you start paying 10,000's?

I was already happy with what I had...

 

[JasonM]

Gigabyte have been catching a lot of flack recently...
I had no issues with my X570 Aorus Elite, I plugged my X2HR's into it and it sounded pretty good, but as a rule I tend to use my external DAC / amp for those purely to drive them better.

The MSI B550I MPG Gaming Max is also rather good, I have only used my in-ear Beyerdynamic DTX-102's

It's all relative to what your use to, if you were to back-to-back test against a very good sound card or external DAC you would notice quite some difference.

It's like the people that lowered their Vauxhall Astra and claimed it handled good, put them in a Lotus Elise or Honda S2000, they would realise that lowered VX Astra not quite as good as they realised, as I say everything in life is relative to what your use to.

 

[Tired9]

It's all relative to what your use to, if you were to back-to-back test against a very good sound card or external DAC you would notice quite some difference.

It's like the people that lowered their Vauxhall Astra and claimed it handled good, put them in a Lotus Elise or Honda S2000, they would realise that lowered VX Astra not quite as good as they realised, as I say everything in life is relative to what your use to.

I used to go into richer sounds in Stoke-on-Trent when I was like 13 years old and mess with the stuff on show, I had a hard on for audio back then.. just a curious kid.
I still have yet to find really any difference, the only thing I could do is rationalize the expense I paid with.. oh it does sound better... I could convince myself.

The worst sounding crap I had was actually a Sony Genezi MHC system.

I had a Morphy Richards hifi that sounded awesome.

I also heard a Sony MHC-W25 which actually did sound amazing.

The thing is even within a product range systems can sound drastically different.

The MHC-W25 is a completely different animal the Genezi MHC-GT 555 which sounded like dog crap.


W25 (Very rare setup now)

GT 555

 

[james.miller]

What if the setup in question don't have this issue?

What if you only bring this up for argument sake?

Every setup has it. Amps, speakers, rooms - they are all imperfect. I didnt bring this up just for the sake of an argument. Go back and read my original reply - i bought it up because i know you arent doing anything to correct for it and i KNOW from 20 years of experience playing around with audio gear exactly where that system will be falling shorty.

These claims of no distortion (when that douk is rated at output power only at 10% distortion!) are false. Your claims of not having any issues with phase response when we live in an imperfect world are false. And your lack of knowledge isn't an excuse to presume you are right while everybody else is wrong.

 

[Tired9]

Every setup has it. Amps, speakers, rooms - they are all imperfect. I didnt bring this up just for the sake of an argument. Go back and read my original reply - i bought it up because i know you arent doing anything to correct for it and i KNOW from 20 years of experience playing around with audio gear exactly where that system will be falling shorty.

These claims of no distortion (when that douk is rated at output power only at 10% distortion!) are false. Your claims of not having any issues with phase response when we live in an imperfect world are false. And your lack of knowledge isn't an excuse to presume you are right while everybody else is wrong.

10% at 160 watts, 1% at 125 watts, yes I did not fail English in school.

I still need you to quantify this issue.. what issue...?

 

[turbot1984]

Most onboard solutions are fine, so long as you put them to their highest sampling rates, for example the old ALC 889 would deliver it's best results at the highest sampling rate... does depend on how well implemented it is on the motherboard, but you should not have any worries with a modern sound chip... hopefully!

You have optical out, does your receiver have this?

If so there is your answer, you will need to buy an optical cable with measurements that won't restrict you from placing the amp where you want to, as some of these optical leads are very short.

Do that, set up your speakers to the A-B or front speaker terminals, change the audio mode on the receiver to Direct / stereo and you have a 2.0 setup.

AVR receivers are awesome amps for a simple setup like this but produce a tonne of heat and are generally massive.

It was the setup I used before going smaller.

The amp has a Subwoofer pre-out, if you don't want to be experiencing sub 30hz bass, then you can get away with going with cheaper home audio subwoofers.

It will need to be active and have it's own amplifier.

So its going to look something like this with the big Jamo under the table ... hoping for a big improvement over crappy little logitech 2.1 system. The Missions are over 20 years old now but always liked them. Rear port so will have to bung up as against wall?

 

[Tired9]

So its going to look something like this with the big Jamo under the table ... hoping for a big improvement over crappy little logitech 2.1 system. The Missions are over 20 years old now but always liked them. Rear port so will have to bung up as against wall?

Will definitely beat out a Logitech system, even their higher end stuff.