300 GBP tops and insane audio... though it will destroy your neighbours sanity.

[james.miller]

10% at 160 watts, 1% at 125 watts, yes I did not fail English in school.

I still need you to quantify this issue.. what issue...?

How certain are you of those manufacturer ratings when the PSU is only capable of 175w output?

A lot of what you've posted here has some basic fundamental issues. You can either choose to learn from people, or don't. But we will keep pointing out the flaws in your argument.

 

[Tired9]

How certain are you of those manufacturer ratings when the PSU is only capable of 175w output?

A lot of what you've posted here has some basic fundamental issues. You can either choose to learn from people, or don't. But we will keep pointing out the flaws in your argument.

An argument can be fully flawed when hearing is fully subjective.

The easiest way to win an argument is apply an argument to subjectivity.

Hey your wife is ugly as ****, yet you love her!

My argument is she is ugly as ****, how could you love her?

You already know where this goes...

You should chase that 1% in beauty or you do not love someone!

Essentially the same issue.

 

[james.miller]

An argument can be fully flawed when hearing is fully subjective.

This isnt about your hearing, it's fact.

 

[Tired9]

This isnt about your hearing, it's fact.

It is a fact that we all hear differently and also have subjective preferential for sounds.

 

[james.miller]

So its going to look something like this with the big Jamo under the table ... hoping for a big improvement over crappy little logitech 2.1 system. The Missions are over 20 years old now but always liked them. Rear port so will have to bung up as against wall?

Yes defo bung the ports. I have a pair of M71's and they do not like being up against a wall ported.

It is a fact that we all hear differently and also have subjective preferential for sounds.

Oh, so because you can't hear the problem that must mean you're right when you say it sounds fantastic, riiight?

No. Yes, hearing is very subjective, but it's not an excuse to hide behind.

 

[Tired9]

How can someone hide behind the fact our hearing is subjective?

And yeah if I am saying it sounds fantastic, is because my ears enjoy the sound that resonates from it.. so that is a subjective truth only applying to me. It may also apply to some others.

The ego in you though wants to disprove this subjective fact of mine because you spend so much money and invested so much time and effort into coming across as a know-it all and now need to uphold your false ego you hold, which is to be better than others and this is the failing of you personally, you cannot understand that your argument has no real place in reality, because reality is subjective and comes down to perception.

Reality does not exist, reality is formed through the subjective lens of humans.

This reality of sound being objective and fact is all bull-**** and snake oil.

There are quantifiable upgrades, noise in the signal, interference those all people will agree on.
Limited sound reproduction is another.

Depends on what life you lead too, a busy person is likely not going to notice a speaker having some imperfections in the signal whilst working their ass off and the music is just background noise to help them.

People with idle minds who think too much set up a world around them with some deluded view of how the world should be, well I hate to tell you, but nature is not subject to your views.

 

[turbot1984]

Logitechs went on window shelf out of the way which was handy, so might bung Missions on wall.

 

[james.miller]

How can someone hide behind the fact our hearing is subjective?

Are you intentionally being obtuse? Your lack of ability hear the shortfalls of that system, and there is absolutely no question there are shorfalls, does not mean they dont exist.

The ego in you though wants to disprove this subjective fact of mine because you spend so much money and invested so much time and effort into coming across as a know-it all and now need to uphold your false ego you hold, which is to be better than others and this is the failing of you personally, you cannot understand that your argument has no real place in reality, because reality is subjective and comes down to perception.

No, you don't know me at all. Best not to try and guess. I don't care if you come out of this with a better understanding or not. I'm correcting you so other people dont make the same mistakes. Nothing i have spoken of in this thread is subjective. Only your hearing is.

 

[Tired9]

Are you intentionally being obtuse? Your lack of ability hear the shortfalls of that system, and there is absolutely no question there are shorfalls, does not mean they dont exist.



No, you don't know me at all. Best not to try and guess. I don't care if you come out of this with a better understanding or not. I'm correcting you so other people dont make the same mistakes. Nothing i have spoken of in this thread is subjective. Only your hearing is.

As is everyone else's hearing.

Do you shun those who say it don't sound any better as you go nuts mentally trying to convince them?




I have facts too but they don't apply to the reality outside of my own brain.

Plus if I am trying to make money, I would definitely advertise them.

Do you think most people care if a system can go lower than 25hz yet they already told you they only listen to rock music?

Do you have to convince them without evidence that 99% of the rock out there has nothing below 35hz... ?

 

[james.miller]

As is everyone else's hearing.

Look, the only one talking about subjective hearing is you. And as i said, that's not an excuse to hide behind. It doesnt matter if you refuse to acknowledge what you've got wrong or not. It's still wrong and as long as everybody else understands that, it's all good. You can sigg till the cows come home about how fantastic that system sounds but we all know the truth. Nothing deep or profound about it, it's just the truth.

all fart and no poise.

I have facts

Are you going to start presenting some then?

 

[Tired9]

Look, the only one talking about subjective hearing is you. And as i said, that's not an excuse to hide behind. It doesnt matter if you refuse to acknowledge what you've got wrong or not. It's still wrong and as long as everybody else understands that, it's all good. You can sigg till the cows come home about how fantastic that system sounds but we all know the truth. Nothing deep or profound about it, it's just the truth.

all fart and no poise.


Are you going to start presenting some then?

If everyone has subjective hearing, how can written down truth of yours have any standing audibly since all results will differ through subjectivity... ?

How are you not understanding this?

Sounds like I am doing a written IQ test lol.

 

[james.miller]

If everyone has subjective hearing, how can written down truth of yours have any standing audibly since all results will differ through subjectivity... ?

This is this equivalent of asking 'if i'm colour blind, why is this banana yellow just because you say so'.

I guess some of us just have better hearing than you. Well most of us. Ok probably all of us.

 

[Tired9]

This is this equivalent of asking 'if i'm colour blind, why is this banana yellow just because you say so'.

I guess some of us just have better hearing than you. Well most of us. Ok probably all of us.

It would matter if you were not trying to sell something to someone, but because we have something that can be taken from you, it matters.

So if I can't really care for the betterment of stupidly overprices equipment, I am better off spending less and enjoying the depths of my limitations rather than trying to seek something that I will then learn to hate because the cost was just absolutely not worth it.

I could dump my wife, get divorced, get with that bombshell over there, yet what I had was far better and after a short time, the looks fade and you begin to retreat and become jaded and miserable.
All because I followed the trend of "looks".

Audio has this side to it and it's not that hard anymore to hit this level at lower, much lower price ranges because equipment quality has gone up and things fall in price, the upgrades are small to insignificant and are not worth the dent in your wallet most of the time.

 

[james.miller]

Nothing wrong with making use of what's available. Not much right with making unsubstantiated claims about it and getting petulant when people discuss those claims.

 

[Tired9]

Nothing wrong with making use of what's available. Not much right with making unsubstantiated claims about it and getting petulant when people discuss those claims.

But you can't quantify it as you have never heard it in person, other than through a phone recording which for a phone recording is way above average as far as those go.

So you are trying to still prove something you have no proof to, other than in theory.

Theory is limited.

Your application of dogmatic theory is not always correct.

 

[james.miller]

I dont need to, it's a cheap ported subwoofer designed for cars in a small box being used outside of it's intended application. I know what they sound like. I know you arent doing anything to correct that or improve integration. I have a cheap vibe sub too, a 12" slick SLR sitting in my loft. I know what cheap subs sound like. I kknow what cheap vibe subs sound like. I know everything i need to know about your sub without needing to hear it.

And that's just the subwoofer.

and as far as quantifying anything goes, you've been corrected on a number of things that your hearing has absolutely no bearing on. There's nothing to quantify there at all.

 

[Tired9]

I dont need to, it's a cheap ported subwoofer designed for cars in a small box being used outside of it's intended application. I know what they sound like. I know you arent doing anything to correct that or improve integration. I have a cheap vibe sub too, a 12" slick SLR sitting in my loft. I know what cheap subs sound like. I kknow what cheap vibe subs sound like. I know everything i need to know about your sub without needing to hear it.

And that's just the subwoofer.

Your 12" slick has a totally different box design my friend.

I am assuming it is the SLR right?

My box is much much bigger.

Yes I know how your Slick sounds.. total crap.
A 12" suffocated by "space saving".

 

[james.miller]

The slick drivers had better TS parameters than the equivalent pulses, actually. But no, it's not that pulse. I have an original dustcapless 12" SLR with the inverted surround.

yes I know how your Slick sounds.. total crap.

Yeah...don't believe you.

 

[Tired9]

Oh LOL those old Slicks are even worse!

And there we have it folks, he just don't believe me!

The most important part of a subwoofers performance is the box design, these slicks were total crap to begin with.

In a much better box, probably a lot better.

 

[Armageus]

But you can't quantify it as you have never heard it in person, other than through a phone recording which for a phone recording is way above average as far as those go.

Ah... falling back into the old audiophile "well unless you've heard my system you can't possible comment..."

So you are trying to still prove something you have no proof to, other than in theory.

Theory is limited.

If £80 Class D amplifiers were the best thing available, then everyone would have them.

The fact is that most Hi fi amplifiers don't use them and Most AV Receivers don't use them - why wouldn't manufacturers use them if the sound quality is indistinguishable from more power hungry/physical larger/expensive AB designs?
However for things that REQUIRE small amplifiers (like mobile phones, MP3 players, car stereos etc) then they can't be beaten.

(*Before anyone says it, I know there are exceptions in that you can quite easily get £1000 Class D amplifiers and the like)