Your VRAM temperatures will be closer to 90, 100C, especially if gaming at 4k.
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30xx Series Founders Edition
- Thread starter Dirk Diggler
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Your VRAM temperatures will be closer to 90, 100C, especially if gaming at 4k.
You're not considering resale value. 12 -24 months from now, 3090's resale value will be > 30% over a 3080ti's IMO, for the obvious reasons mentioned.
I am considering resale value if you track my posts in this thread.
Resale value tends to track relative performance and there is no evidence that the 3090 will break this trend as previous flagship cards haven’t in the past.
The 3080, 3080ti and 3090 are all within 10% of each other. In a few years time when we have 4080s which are 10% faster than a 3090 for £650 a 3090s value will drop be low that price. It may even drop below a 4070 if it’s faster. Just look how much people sold 2080ti cards for right after the 3080 was announced, used prices went from £900 to £500 overnight.
The only outlier on the 3090 is it’s vram but the market of people that actually need the vram but aren’t buying professional cards like quatro is tiny and not normally those shopping on the used market because they use them for proper work. I just can’t see a 3090 is going to be commanding £800+ on the used market once the next gen is out assuming they increase performance by the usual 20% or so without significantly increasing MSRPs.
Soldato
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Nope, I repadded it
Makes a massive difference, doesn't it!Check resale value of previous Titan cards, Vega Frontier Edition, Radeon VII - these cards have all outperformed 'normal' cards when it comes to resale value.
3090 checks this box, as it's huge 24GB VRAM pool will make for a good productivity card for a long time. In addition to this, it has a full-fat hash rate - unlike the 3080ti (and newer LHR-3080's) - so if anything, we can expect 3090 resale value to be especially good.
Regarding the price - not sure where you're pulling the £800 from? My comments were as follows. Lets assume 3090 is currently 30% more expensive than a 3080ti. Whatever the 3080ti ends up selling for, once the 4000 series it out, I expect the 3090 to sell for over 30% higher. This could be £300, £500 or £1000, depends if there are any profitable cryto's to mine at the time, and whether ETH goes to POS by then.
The 3090 is not a Titan card.
Titans have drivers with Quadro features unlocked which enable additional functionality which enables some productivity workloads that just don't work on regular GeForce series cards. That was one of the HUGE criticisms of the 3090 when it was launched as it lost these features, you need more than just VRAM for many productivity workloads and that functionality is now locked to Quadro and above only. There are some uses cases for the additional VRAM but they are few and far between because of this.
I'd expect a 3080ti/3090 (there's nothing really in it) to be trading blows with a £500 card next gen (likely a 4070) with the only difference being that both cards likely have more VRAM. The issue is that 3080 and 3080ti performance is so close to 3090 performance and it will be trading blows with a brand new £500 card means any 'premium' for the vram is going to be limited by its relative performance. Your not going to buy a used 3090 if you can just buy a more powerful card for less money that comes with a warranty and hasn't been though a mining craze.
There is a reason any used 2080ti prices went from £900 to £500 the moment Jensen's presentation finished, its because the 3070 was launching for £469 and was as fast as a 2080ti which was selling for £1,300 just hours before. Loads of people panic sold them because in a normal used market, their value would drop like a stone. Many got caught out by the GPU shortage that followed.
For reference Titan X pascals are going for around £450, 1080ti's are also going for around £450. Titan RTX's are still going for high prices but there is so few sold (4) its not representative sample and 3 of the 4 were silly priced 'buy it now' listings, the last auction one went for £1,000 back in the middle of April which doesn't seem crazy in the grand scheme of things when 3080's were going for £1,600.
ETH is supposed to be going POS anytime from November to Jan so expect a huge influx of cards on the used market when that happens and prices will crash, gamers won't want to pay much more for a used 3090 than a 3080 while professionals who need the extra VRAM for work would have probably brought a 3090 already.
Most the people who have been buying 3090s only do so because they can't get a 3080
Soldato
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Your assuming there will be no other token to mine when that happens, for all we know one/two/three others take off and the same cards that could mine ETH can now mine coins x/y/z. That's the beauty of GPU mining in that its not limited like an ASIC you can grab another algorithm and away you go..
POS is the fashion now so I doubt we are going to have another big POW coin hit anywhere near where it will need to be for it to be worth throwing expensive Gpus at mining.
I'm expecting a sudden and huge sell off once ETH moves off POW.
I'm expecting a sudden and huge sell off once ETH moves off POW.
This whole conversation came from the notion that a 3090 is better value than a 3080ti (it just isn’t) and that the extra vram will mean it will command a premium on the used market which somehow makes it better value.
It may well command a premium but it will be small in actual pounds and pence. Don’t forget that people are paying a £400-£500 premium for these in the first place. To get perhaps a £100-£150 extra back on the used market? That sounds like good value to me…
People are just not going to pay a significant premium for something on the used market that isn’t going to give extra performance in the real world or pay more than what you can get a new better card for. The pricing will be depressed by what ever Nvidia launch and depressed even further once those cards start making it to the used market.
It may well command a premium but it will be small in actual pounds and pence. Don’t forget that people are paying a £400-£500 premium for these in the first place. To get perhaps a £100-£150 extra back on the used market? That sounds like good value to me…
People are just not going to pay a significant premium for something on the used market that isn’t going to give extra performance in the real world or pay more than what you can get a new better card for. The pricing will be depressed by what ever Nvidia launch and depressed even further once those cards start making it to the used market.
Many differing opinions in here, which is fine.
To me, paying £1399 for a 3090 vs £1049 for a 3080ti is a no brainer, even for a gamer:
1. Double VRAM (increases resale value, due to being an effective rendering/productivity card with such a huge frame buffer. Extra VRAM will be an advantage for upcoming games, for those that wil skip the 4000 series (I won't be skipping, but some will)
2. Significantly better cooler. Less noise, lower temperatures
3. Full fat hashrate. POS (term related to Ethereum swapping from POW) may be delayed, which would make nerfed LHR cards less desirable, and full fat hashrate more desirable
4. Extra 5% performance
I'll not argue further, as it's obvious to anyone with the wit to do a sold auction search on a popular auction site, that other large VRAM cards of a given generation, command a premium due to the productivity use case. It's well known the 3090 doesn't have Titan class driver features, though it certainly does have a huge 24GB frame buffer, which will be very useful for productivity for several years.
To me, paying £1399 for a 3090 vs £1049 for a 3080ti is a no brainer, even for a gamer:
1. Double VRAM (increases resale value, due to being an effective rendering/productivity card with such a huge frame buffer. Extra VRAM will be an advantage for upcoming games, for those that wil skip the 4000 series (I won't be skipping, but some will)
2. Significantly better cooler. Less noise, lower temperatures
3. Full fat hashrate. POS (term related to Ethereum swapping from POW) may be delayed, which would make nerfed LHR cards less desirable, and full fat hashrate more desirable
4. Extra 5% performance
I'll not argue further, as it's obvious to anyone with the wit to do a sold auction search on a popular auction site, that other large VRAM cards of a given generation, command a premium due to the productivity use case. It's well known the 3090 doesn't have Titan class driver features, though it certainly does have a huge 24GB frame buffer, which will be very useful for productivity for several years.
Soldato
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You forgot one of the main key points... the 3090 has been out for eight months already! That's countless hours more gaming time and if your an evil miner you could have paid off the card before the Ti was even out.
I can understand the pov of the 3080 being better as its price it good, but trying to sell ice to an eskimo when your thinking a Ti was better than the cards either side of it.. what are you smoking (not you Dave)?
I fully expect the next gen cards to be much more of a jump over ampere than ampere was over Turing and I'd also expect to see increases to VRAM right throughout the stack.
Nvidia knows AMD is in the game now and will have to go big next gen.
Nvidia knows AMD is in the game now and will have to go big next gen.
Also what the 3090 has over all the cards is a NVLINK which in my case is very important for my work. The 3080ti fe is a card stuck in a funny place to me for many reasons and doesnt make logical sense over the 3090. Anyways we all have different needs but reality is the 3090 even for the difference in price is a better value card overall to me than a 3080ti.
As I stated on release day for the 3080ti :-
3080 Ti FE=
1- half the VRAM of a 3090
2- 3080 cooler (with a 350w (but can use 400w) card that should have the 3090 cooler)
3- no SLI/NVLINK
4- chips that would normally have been used for a 3080 (failed 3090 chips) are now a 3080ti.
5- almost twice the price of a 3080.
So basically a win win for Nvidia, all they really did was add 2 extra memory chips and used the same GPU that would have been used as a 3080 but less cut down. So really the cost of the 3080ti for Nvidia compared to a 3080 FE is the cost of 2 extra memory chips (then almost double the price).
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If you read what I said multiple times. The 3080Ti does not have a LHR variant as it does not need any product differentiation. The LHR aspect is there to differentiate models which came with full hash rate prior, but now getting gimped. I have said multiple times the 3080Ti and 3070Ti is already cut.
Here earlier post
If you go check the likes of MSI and ASUS for example, the 3080Ti and 3070Ti are listed on there but do not reference LHR because they do not need to differentiate. However you can see they have uploaded V2 or LHR versions for 3080, 3070, 3060ti etc, those models they have not got LHR SKUs listed.
Cannot see how its hard to understand that the 3080Ti and 3070Ti already have cut hash rate, while those cards that did not prior will get some additional marketing around them to ensure its clear that going forward they will be cut.
Sheesh man, you should be a politician!
"The 3080Ti does not have a LHR variant"... I think you'll find the correct statement is "The 3080Ti does not have a non-LHR variant".
LHR describes how a card functions, not just a sticker on a box. Any card with a Lite Hash Rate algorithm in the BIOS is a LHR card. You are saying the 3080Ti and 3070Ti are hash rate limited but not LHR cards... can you not see the contradiction in your own comments?
Re-read the (incorrect) statement that you love:
"Versions with LHR"... LHR is a function or property of the card. It does not say "cards labelled as LHR".
From EVGA Product Management Director, "3080 Ti has LHR"... I'm guessing he knows better than you.
In your world the grass in my garden is not green because it didn't say green on the bag of seeds!
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Indeed, know its caught out few people I know. Work college managed to snag a FE 3080Ti after trying to get a 3080, could not work out why his hash rate was not much higher then his misses on a 3060Ti until we pointed out what's going on. Not a big deal for him as Mining was always secondary, but confusing non the less.