330 CI Sport, circa 02/03

Magsy · 20 Sep 2006 at 18:18

Ahh

Am I right about the SSG box? I am sure, at least the early models, they had the SMG taken from the E36 M3 (SMG I). They don't call it SMG on the 330 and it is not the same as the E46 M3 box (SMG II)?

I don't see merlin with paddles so it is probably irrelevant!

[TW]Fox · 20 Sep 2006 at 18:22

Magsy said:
Ahh

Am I right about the SSG box? I am sure, at least the early models, they had the SMG taken from the E36 M3 (SMG I). They don't call it SMG on the 330 and it is not the same as the E46 M3 box (SMG II)?

I don't see merlin with paddles so it is probably irrelevant!

I'm sure it IS called SMG - I have driven a 2002 325Ci Sport with SMG. It is indeed the SMG1 from the E36, and it is indeed naff.

NickXX · 20 Sep 2006 at 18:26

Magsy said:
Ahh

Am I right about the SSG box? I am sure, at least the early models, they had the SMG taken from the E36 M3 (SMG I). They don't call it SMG on the 330 and it is not the same as the E46 M3 box (SMG II)?

I don't see merlin with paddles so it is probably irrelevant!

It is called SMG on the 330i. It's either the same as, or based on the box that came in the e36 M3 - made by Magnetti Marelli. The e46 M3 one is meant to be much better and built by Siemens - it's called SMG2. I couldn't really tell much a of a difference between the two though (Z4 SMG v M3 SMG2), both seem a little clunky.

PMKeates · 20 Sep 2006 at 18:29

None of them are sequential gearboxes, nor that good! Although it may be the better choice to go semi-automatic, for a LOT of motorway miles, if you are likely to travel in high-traffic zones - otherwise I'd stick with a manual

[TW]Fox · 20 Sep 2006 at 18:30

PMKeates said:
None of them are sequential gearboxes, nor that good! )

The SMG gearboxes *ARE* sequential.

JRS · 20 Sep 2006 at 18:34

NickXX said:
It is called SMG on the 330i. It's either the same as, or based on the box that came in the e36 M3 - made by Magnetti Marelli.

The elctronics are MM, obviously the 'box itself isn't (Tremec?). MM make the Selespeed electronics for Fiat group cars as well IIRC.

panthro · 20 Sep 2006 at 18:36

PMKeates said:
None of them are sequential gearboxes, nor that good! Although it may be the better choice to go semi-automatic, for a LOT of motorway miles, if you are likely to travel in high-traffic zones - otherwise I'd stick with a manual

They are sequential. Think about it........

Magsy · 20 Sep 2006 at 18:59

Looking through some old borchure pdfs it seems they cannot make up their mind, it is called SSG or SMG depending on mood! Either way, to be avoided

Gearbox (car) Min. shift time
BMW SMG II (M3 E46) 80 ms
Ferrari F1 (Maserati 4200GT) 80 ms
Ferrari F1 (360 F1) 150 ms
Ferrari F1 (Enzo) 150 ms
Bugatti Veyron (proposed) 200 ms
Ferrari F1 (575M) 220 ms
BMW SMG (M3 E36) 220 ms
Aston Martin Vanquish 250 ms
BMW SSG (3-series) 250ms (150ms for 1st to 2nd)
Alfa Selespeed (156 Selespeed) (old) 700 ms

panthro · 20 Sep 2006 at 19:01

Magsy said:
Looking through some old borchure pdfs it seems they cannot make up their mind, it is called SSG or SMG depending on mood! Either way, to be avoided

I dont believe that an Enzo's shift time is slower than the 4200GT.

PMKeates · 20 Sep 2006 at 19:08

They are not sequential. Only a few sequentials about, which are fitted to Ferrari and Maserati cars

NickXX · 20 Sep 2006 at 19:13

JRS said:
The elctronics are MM, obviously the 'box itself isn't (Tremec?). MM make the Selespeed electronics for Fiat group cars as well IIRC.

Correct, hence the SMG box also being pap.

Ev0 · 20 Sep 2006 at 19:21

Magsy said:
Looking through some old borchure pdfs it seems they cannot make up their mind, it is called SSG or SMG depending on mood! Either way, to be avoided

Isn't there two autos though, the non smg one and the smg one on the standard models? One had the paddles the other just a normal auto stick?

Just because I remember seeing a 330 Clubsport with paddles, but other coupes have been autos but no paddles.

NickXX · 20 Sep 2006 at 19:23

Ev0 said:
Isn't there two autos though, the non smg one and the smg one on the standard models? One had the paddles the other just a normal auto stick?

Just because I remember seeing a 330 Clubsport with paddles, but other coupes have been autos but no paddles.

Correct - the gearboxes that came with the 330ci are 5-speed manual, then 6-speed manual, Auto box, Semi-auto box (SMG sometimes called SSG) which comes with the paddles.

panthro · 20 Sep 2006 at 19:24

PMKeates said:
They are not sequential. Only a few sequentials about, which are fitted to Ferrari and Maserati cars

Someone please correct me if Im wrong, but isnt a sequential gearbox, a gb that moves through the gears sequentially, i.e 1 -> 2 -> 3 and the same on the downchange 3-> 2-> 1. Dont the SMG gearboxes do this? cos last time I drove one they did.

PMKeates · 20 Sep 2006 at 19:26

panthro said:
Someone please correct me if Im wrong, but isnt a sequential gearbox, a gb that moves through the gears sequentially, i.e 1 -> 2 -> 3 and the same on the downchange 3-> 2-> 1. Dont the SMG gearboxes do this? cos last time I drove one they did.

To my knowledge, SMG doesn't have to go up and down the box in order.

Magsy · 20 Sep 2006 at 19:28

Ev0 said:
Isn't there two autos though, the non smg one and the smg one on the standard models? One had the paddles the other just a normal auto stick?

Just because I remember seeing a 330 Clubsport with paddles, but other coupes have been autos but no paddles.

Yea, that would be 'Steptronic', a stick only controllable full auto gearbox. It is acutally quite good for an auto. You can get an aftermarket paddle set for that gearbox too - just to make it more confusing.

NickXX · 20 Sep 2006 at 19:28

panthro said:
Someone please correct me if Im wrong, but isnt a sequential gearbox, a gb that moves through the gears sequentially, i.e 1 -> 2 -> 3 and the same on the downchange 3-> 2-> 1. Dont the SMG gearboxes do this? cos last time I drove one they did.

Don't think it is. On the SMG boxes, you can only shift up and down sequentially - but this is only because the software doesn't have the ability to go from 1st - 3rd - 5th, etc.

I believe SMG/SMG2 are manual gearboxes with pumps and things which move the gear selector for you - so in reality it's just a normal gearbox.

I think an F1-style sequential gearbox is something different. Could be barking up the wrong tree here though - might get the Technical Lexicon out of my car later and see what that says.

panthro · 20 Sep 2006 at 19:29

PMKeates said:
To my knowledge, SMG doesn't have to go up and down the box in order.

I thought they did. Well, when I drove one thats how I drove it. Might have to check that again, or maybe Rotty could enlighten me.

Magsy · 20 Sep 2006 at 19:30

PMKeates said:
To my knowledge, SMG doesn't have to go up and down the box in order.

You might be thinking of DSG on the Audi's, which can skip gears on the way down.
Tee BMW system will drop through each gear I believe, it may not lift the clutch (and blip) but it will cycle through them all. You pull the paddle multiple times and it shifts multiple gears at once, it does not go say 5 to 2 in one.

PMKeates · 20 Sep 2006 at 19:35

Magsy said:
You might be thinking of DSG on the Audi's, which can skip gears on the way down.
Tee BMW system will drop through each gear I believe, it may not lift the clutch (and blip) but it will cycle through them all. You pull the paddle multiple times and it shifts multiple gears at once, it does not go say 5 to 2 in one.

I didn't mean it what it actually does, but what it is capable of doing - and NickXX has got it right!