400,000 graduate jobs

chakib said:
Everyone here is confirming my fears.

I always aspired to go to uni and study something i loved. i wanted to delve into physics but frankly..I just wasn't smart enough. i did A-level maths and that was relatively difficult. I dreamed of going further but it just did not happen.

what HAS happened is I'm now at uni and have gone through 3 courses. waste of time? maybe so? but what it has taught me is that I partially agree with killa_ken. most of today's courses are mickey mouse courses. I'm actually doing one now and...well ill simplify it. most of the **** they "teach" me here I can learn of the bloody net. easy as chips. product design, industrial design, journalism & communication. and now photography and video. yes I've gone through all of these. At times i regret it at times i don't. what i do know is the field i want to go into. NO ONE...and i mean NO ONE will accept you without that piece of paper that says you've wasted a bunch of money on a pointless degree.

so tell me. what am i supposed to do? i KNOW I'm not clever enough to study my dream subject, physics. yet i don't wish to work at a mind numbing crap job. i want to teach. or report. so what's a mickey mouse course studying student supposed to do?
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You have gone through 3 courses at University?
 
Killa_ken said:
They dilute the prestige of the qualification. As has been said a 2:2 in 1999 held a lot more value then a 2:2 does today. If you want to do psychology or some other nonsense go to a community college and get a BTEC or whatever the latest fad is. Leave degrees to those who chose to do real subjects and have earned the right to progression.

Just the other day:

Her: "Hey what did you graduate with then!?!11"
Me: "3.71"
Her: "oh haha I beat you!! I got a 3.8"
Me: "Yeah but you did sports science"
Her: "so?"
Me: : /
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But if someone wants to learn more about a specific topic in detail and have good resources available to them, then why shouldn't they be able to do so? It doesn't dilute the prestige at all, if you get a firsts at Oxford in Maths, then your pretty much going to get any Job you want anyway, regardless of if you got that now, or 20 years ago.
 
Moses99p said:
Because it wastes our money and wastes their time? Some people aren't good enough to do well at uni (on a meaningful course), boo-****ing-hoo, *plays the World's smallest violin just for them*.
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"meaningful" to you maybe. Lot's of people do more of the "BS" courses because it interests them, not for the money.
 
msm722 said:
A 'certain' level of competency - meeting deadlines, organising time etc etc. I didn't say a high level of competency ;)
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Despite being among the army of people that had a rant in this thread,I would still have to agree with this opinion. Apart from eventual career prospects, a degree and generally decent academic background tends to give a person some intangible qualities that non-graduates tend to neither have nor would even understand their significance. I believe these are the reasons(or part of them) why in my company(where one does not need a degree to start into) graduates tend to move up the ladder faster than non-graduates,even if the latter might have started working since 18 or so.

Actually reading through all the posts so far, we sort of went towards the other opposite of making degrees sounding absolutely cr*p. Yet we should not forget that Britain is still considerably better place to study in than most other countries in the world and that part of the reason why the supply of university education has increased lately is not just to do with lessening teaching standards but also because our universities are managing to attract many brights scholars that would rather work here than in a uni in their country. So if quality of British degrees is starting to become questionable, what can we then say about the ones from countries like France,Italy,Germany or (God forbid) eastern Europe where their higher education systems are in dire need for reforms?
 
[TW]Fox;13284297 said:
And if you want to work for one of the Big 4 they care far more about what you did at school (ie, UCAS points) than your Degree. It's pretty much 'How many UCAS points did you get? Oh you've got a degree as well? yea whatever, now tell me, HOW MANY UCAS POINTS!'
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Bit worrying, I always thought that once you'd got your degree your old stuff was worthless (I'm still at 6th form)
 
silane said:
How can exemptions be a bad thing? If you want to be an chartered accountant the degree is a wise choice - I've seen the benefits first hand.

As far as any career goes, degree or no degree, it's just about having some luck and being in the right place at the right time with the right employer.

Having a decent degree under your belt will only be a positive thing!

It's pointless talking about jobs at the moment, I've seen people who are very experienced (and also have degrees) failing to find jobs; it's tough, times are hard.
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I've yet to see anyone who really benefited from doing an accounting degree. I mean, 6 exemption is about 5 weeks of college say and 100 hours of studying imo. So you spend three years to exempt yourself from 2 months of work, seems pretty pointless use of time to me.
 
Strife212 said:
Bit worrying, I always thought that once you'd got your degree your old stuff was worthless (I'm still at 6th form)
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UCAS points are hugely important if you want a placement or a grad job with a large multinational. They place more importance on them than anything else including your degree classification, where you get the degree from, and what its in.

Don't waste time and screw around at A level. Do well. You need those UCAS points.
 
yantorsen said:
But if someone wants to learn more about a specific topic in detail and have good resources available to them, then why shouldn't they be able to do so? It doesn't dilute the prestige at all, if you get a firsts at Oxford in Maths, then your pretty much going to get any Job you want anyway, regardless of if you got that now, or 20 years ago.
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Some people really underestimate how bad the downturn in graduate jobs in the current climate. I study economics at LSE and will graduate this year with hopefully a first and haven't got a job or internship for the summer. I know numerous students who study at various universities who arent getting to an interview stage even having got into to reputable courses and doing well. The main jobs for top mathematicians, physicists, economists and even engineers was in the financial sector. Most financial sector firms have stopped hiring, and those which are are down to single digits within each department. This is no where near enough for the graduates getting firsts (and 2.1s) in these fields from oxbridge, lse, imperial and top european schools (the main feeders for these firms). If you thought getting into the Big4 would be tough because of a reduction in hiring, if these students resort to applying to these firms it will get a lot harder. I expect getting into any type of consultancy firm (of various reputations) will also be very difficult due to everyone having to downscale their ambitions.

Should note this has nothing to do with dilution of degrees so I do agree with you in that regard. Anyone going to university should remember that only 3 things matter. Pick a traditional academic subject or reputable vocational subject, get a 2.1 or above (standard screening requirement) and get into the most prestigous university/faculty you can. University/faculty reputation matters immensely. Then its about you and how you perform at interviews and assessments centres.

Unless you are wealthy, university is too expensive to simply pick what you "enjoy" doing.
 
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Just to show that is it not all doom and gloom for graduates, I've been offered a place after months of searching at a big4 organisation for a graduate position.

[TW]Fox is correct. Most large institutions place UCAS point requirements in the region of 300-320 on job roles and some even insist on at least an A in GCSE Maths.
 
meghatronic said:
My Uncle (before he was made redundant) used to hate taking graduates on as they couldn't adapt to real life situations.
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Thats a bit of a sweeping statement, just because someone has been through university and has successfully graduated doesnt mean they can't be successful in industry as well. Admittedly there are some people who have no hope, but at the same time there are people who have every chance of succeeding.
 
It was a god send to me that most of my fellow coursemates decided that they didnt need to look for work before they left uni, and the other lot all wanted to go travelling. Most are back now and the rest are working in supermarkets. I had a job in my industry before i left because of this.
 
As people have said, a lot depends on the course you study. I graduated summer 2008 and out of my class theres 2 people at microsoft, 1 at accenture, 1 at IT HQ for M&S, I managed to get into an investment banks IT department, and the majority of the other 30 grads have gotten into industry in smaller organisations/ lesser known large companies.

Studying something a little different at uni can make all the difference, as well as doing a course thats more than just exams & coursework that gives you chance to prove yourself, luck and timing is a big help too i guess.

a Placement year is key though.
 
DB_SamX said:
Speaking from a grad+1 pespective, our company (medium-sized engineering consultancy in the built environment) has put on hold recruitment unless someone with a specific set of skills is required. We even made over 50 ppl redundant recently and shuffled a lot of positions into foreign outfits or other departments. When I joined, our national grad intake was 50+, last year, it was no more than about 20. We only have 1 grad position in a new office atm, and even then, we are looking internally.
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Pretty much same here. Pleanty of work still going in other engineering sectors though. I have an interview with Scottish and Southern Energy soon and they have had no slow down in their grad intake. If you are getting into engineering its vital to choose a pretty recession proof sector.

Where do you work out of interest?
 
The public sector I'd say.

I'm not going to be taking a placement year; only a summer internship. I got 300 UCAS points, a B at GCSE Maths and study at a very low ranked university/mid ranked business school. Reading things like this always make me think I've completely shot myself in the foot, but we will see - I'm not aiming to study at any 'top 4' or 'top 10' institution but I guess only time will tell.

In my ideal situation, with 2 10-week summer internships, a masters from a decent university and 300 UCAS points I'd hope that I'd be a good candidate in '11-'12 come the turn around.
 
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